Gaia

Bubblepedia-Brochure finalised and ready for distribution

41 posts in this topic

Thats what most of us want, cheaper house prices? At least I know I do, and I imagine it is the purpose of the brochure. We can talk altruistically and say it is to save first home buyers from themselves but I know for me this is only part of the reason for wanting cheaper house prices is the main reason that would make me happy.

I cannot honestly say I want to walk door to door to save people from high house prices, it is about saving myself. IF you look at special interest groups they contain people generally, of course there are exceptions, who stand to gain from the item they are pushing. Socialists are workers, Unionists are workers, Jehovas Witnesses want to go to heaven etc.

Me, I want to buy or build a home for what I think it should cost to produce one, without government manipulation and taxes.

Refreshing to see someone honest about it :)

Realistically you might not want to try and use that as your message though. You just alienated 2/3rds of the public that already own a house and you really pissed off the 1/3rd that have a mortgage as well.

While you might not personally care if you piss them off or not you are no longer working in the personal sphere. You want them to support your thing so that you get what you want. Telling them what you want (which effectively in their minds is taking their stuff off them) might not be the best way to garner support. You need to show them how you are helping them, not how they can help you. Otherwise I'd recommend you take the couple hundred bucks and go to the casino, more chance of getting a house that way I reckon.

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I think you misunderstand "democracy". Elections are not held so you get a chance to vote for one person in your electorate who is a 100% copy of your own mind and therefore represents your interests. The chances of that election voting strategy ever succeeding is 0% since party agenda sets the course after the election. Elections are held so you get a chance to vote for one person in your electorate who prevents others from doing damage to society so that every person of society has the foundation to make himself a success.

Therefore any election vote against the status quo along the lines of Pauline Hanson, Steve Fielding or Nick Xenophon is a step in the right direction. I don't see eye to eye with any of the three but society's success is dependent on conscience voting and conscience voting only occurs if you have independents filling the seats.

You are probably right, no one can tick all of the boxes, but certainly wanting cheaper house prices does not align itself well with a certain group, i.e. liberal / big government / conservative etc. Being anti immigration lends itself to conservatism, most are conservatives, Being a family first Christian makes it easy to come up with a platform; what would the bible say I suppose, I guess Xenophon would have similar issues in deciding which way to fall on issues. Climate change as we can see is a divisive issue tearing the parties apart due to its nature not really aligning itself neatly with either side of politics, except for I suppose the greens.

At best on an affordable housing platform you would come across as moderate on the other areas but unfortunately it would seem to me in general people who want lower house prices are generally anything but moderate but are at the polar extremes or close to them of politics whether it be right or left.

Maybe we should have a 1 to 10 scale vote on economic thought and social thought to see where people on this forum sit?

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Refreshing to see someone honest about it :)

Realistically you might not want to try and use that as your message though. You just alienated 2/3rds of the public that already own a house and you really pissed off the 1/3rd that have a mortgage as well.

While you might not personally care if you piss them off or not you are no longer working in the personal sphere. You want them to support your thing so that you get what you want. Telling them what you want (which effectively in their minds is taking their stuff off them) might not be the best way to garner support. You need to show them how you are helping them, not how they can help you. Otherwise I'd recommend you take the couple hundred bucks and go to the casino, more chance of getting a house that way I reckon.

Agree completely that it is our goal >> cheaper housing, but certainly not our message, we want cheaper house prices but of course on the brochure we say cheaper house prices are coming whether we want them or not; the bubblepedia brochures approach, or, we say the government needs to act on housing policy before we lose the quality of life Australians have become accustomed too. While I think the latter is more accurate, the former is probably going to have a better affect, as no one reading the brochure is going to have any direct power over government and there is no political party that I know of really supporting more affordable housing. I am starting to think syd is right, a political party may be the only way.

Anyone got a political party they are affiliated with that could have housing affordability tacked on as another objective?

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Yes that's what I said. Give up. It is in my nature to say that kind of sh*t. Oh wait no, the other one, it is in the nature of a lot of people to jump to a stupid f*cking statement based on a simple piece of logic.

It f*cking sounded like that to me:

All which sounds cool until you think how much money and skills other people throw at trying to achieve exactly the same thing. They don't even want to cause a 180 in people thinking they just want a small change from one party to another.

I am not sure a couple of hundred dollar campaign is going to have any measurable effect.

I'm honestly not sure how anyone can interpret that as anything other than: "give up on the grass roots campaign".

Maybe I meant it is better to think of a method where you aren't competing in a known arena against heavy hitters.

Probably not though, I mean that would be sensible and rational.

That's what they're trying to do, Tor: a grass roots campaign. They can't buy votes the way the heavy hitters do, so they have to go from the bottom up. A grass roots campaign is exactly the opposite of lobbying politicians. At the end the day though, you say that a pamphlet won't have any impact, and then add your own ideas for improvement! Clearly, you agree that this is one way to go. You have some good ideas, so head over to bubblepedia and share them. A share some concrete ideas... actual text, images, and layout.

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I'm honestly not sure how anyone can interpret that as anything other than: "give up on the grass roots campaign".

That's what they're trying to do, Tor: a grass roots campaign. They can't buy votes the way the heavy hitters do, so they have to go from the bottom up. A grass roots campaign is exactly the opposite of lobbying politicians. At the end the day though, you say that a pamphlet won't have any impact, and then add your own ideas for improvement! Clearly, you agree that this is one way to go. You have some good ideas, so head over to bubblepedia and share them. A share some concrete ideas... actual text, images, and layout.

Give up on the brochure campaign is what I am saying.

If you approach your project by first defining clearly the effect you desire to achieve and then working out how to do it you might end up with a brochure but I doubt it. Cost factor will limit distribution which means a poorly targeted campaign will probably fail. Not many well targetted campaigns use brochures. So you either need to increase your distribution (i.e. factor in a cost of 10's of thousands) and go for non targeted or work out your target and do a cheaper targeted campaign.

Seems to me no one has really got past the idea of "let's do a brochure to enlighten the masses" which is why I figure it is destined to have little impact.

I don't work in committee format though so joining in would be a waste of everyone's time.

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I agree again with tor. Bupplepedia itself is a failure. Who wants to read?

You need good writers to put facts together.

You need to organise two 18-year old hot chicks who can read like no other.

You need one HD camera, a Mac and an impromptu studio.

You need a marketing guru, a TV network logo and some props.

You need to load videos up on YouTube and hook people into the message with the looks of the 18-year old newsreaders.

The message will spread itself once people spread the word that some Aussies put together a irregular news show with hot chicks.

...and yes I have thought this already through, came up with a TV network name, have the money to buy the camera, have two good-looking girls I know in mind, wondered where to shoot...but haven't dared to venture down this path...

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The item on your list that is hardest to get is the 18yo hot chicks, unless yours really are willing and able.

Maybe some of our older members have children that age? Or the younger ones have wives/girlfriends :P

Its a bit of a problem when the vast majority of posters here I'd wager are male and between 32 and 38.

... which of course means that you'd be better getting a late 20s hot chick not an 18yo. You know, someone who looks old enough to be wanting to buy a house not an ipod.

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I agree again with tor. Bupplepedia itself is a failure. Who wants to read?

About 6 months ago I received an email from a friend telling me to check out 'bubblepedia'. When I replied that I knew it well, he replied (directly from his email):

'f*ck man, I love the bubblepedia website. I came across it just through a google search, something along the lines of "are sydney house prices too expensive".

It made an impact on him. He stopped looking at houses the same day. I'm not convinced that he is one of only a few people that saw it. There are testimonies on the website itself, which indicates that it is making an impact. It is not particularly well organised, but it is a wiki, so anyone is free to start changing the content to add more readable material

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Seems to me no one has really got past the idea of "let's do a brochure to enlighten the masses" which is why I figure it is destined to have little impact.

I'm not sure how it came about, but it appears to have been started by that guy Brett from homes4aussies. He seems to be doing a pretty good job at getting his ideas out there, lobbying politicians etc., so I'm not convinced it is as naive as you make out.

I don't work in committee format though so joining in would be a waste of everyone's time.

No committee as far as I can tell. It looks like a bunch of people putting together ideas in a forum, much like you are doing right now.

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The item on your list that is hardest to get is the 18yo hot chicks, unless yours really are willing and able.

Are you kidding? Went to a cricket match last year (state game) where an innovative chap walked into a backpacker joint and asked who wants to make $100 for wearing a skimpy bikini for 7 hours - an then picked the most suitable. 10 of us lobbed in $10ea and she brought us our beer and food all day.

Some of my son's 'hottie' flings are as dumb as a plank of wood. A dime a dozen.

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I'm not sure how it came about, but it appears to have been started by that guy Brett from homes4aussies. He seems to be doing a pretty good job at getting his ideas out there, lobbying politicians etc., so I'm not convinced it is as naive as you make out.

Competence in one area does not always suggest competence in another, I have no competence in advertising. Brett may have found that a website is a targeted brochure (face it people, they are) and got confused. Or of course it is a brilliant idea and will work.

I think whilst there is no clear agenda to the project the project is doomed, smalls like an SAP implementation at the moment :)

And before anyone complains that I am negative, this is just an opinion and I figure if it keeps the kids off the streets it is a good thing.

No committee as far as I can tell. It looks like a bunch of people putting together ideas in a forum, much like you are doing right now.

hehehe how do you define committee? I am being straight forward with my views and not compromising, that does not work if you need 2+ people to approve a project. If it is funded by 2+ people that have opinions and they expect to be listened to it is hard to avoid committee decision making. I can't afford that level of time investment.

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Some of my son's 'hottie' flings are as dumb as a plank of wood. A dime a dozen.

Ah, but can they read! This might just rule out 90% of them - I've seen how otherwise quite educated people read off a piece of paper and they'd never make newsreader status. And that's 'normal' people not 'hotties'.

You're giving me ideas how to score a serving wench though. Stop it.

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hehehe how do you define committee? I am being straight forward with my views and not compromising, that does not work if you need 2+ people to approve a project. If it is funded by 2+ people that have opinions and they expect to be listened to it is hard to avoid committee decision making. I can't afford that level of time investment.

I love you. My way of negotiating towards consensus is to ask for what I want and reject all other considerations. I wouldn't ask for something unless I had already considered and rightly dismissed all other options. I rarely get my way but I always win (by waiting and watching others stuff up).

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Im 100% agree with xg. That will go straight over the top of 95% of people's heads. Im talking in the bin before they read a full paragraph.

The layout is terrible. For starters there are 6 columns, and not one has a heading that in any way indicates what the point of the flyer actually is.

It's Ok for us, we discuss this stuff at a relatively in depth level, put forward our views and ideas and challenge ones we disagree with, but you have to think about your audience.

An exmple of how most people I know would react to reading this

Column 1 - Read the first quote and think, "What the f*ck does that mean and who is Keynes" maybe ill skip to the next page

Column 2- Read it and think to themselves "if I'm thinking of buying buying what?:huh:" (Housing is not mentioned at all in this column which i assume is the front page) most would bin at this point

Column 3- They would now have an idea that this is about housing, but not know if it thinks our high prices are good or bad. In fact I think most people who are still going would be thinking "wow my house is kicking arse - what a great investor I am"

Column 4 - Who is that Gaurnet guy?? (Would perhaps be a good idea to maybe mention Aussie property directly after the heading rather than climate change)

PS i like the graph though

No one i know would continue beyond this point. Its a great idea, but it is clearly written by intellectuals who have very little contact with Joe every-man

I challenge everyone on here to print out that page, give it to a co-worker and see what their reaction is, then report back. Perhaps before you give it to them ask do you know who Keynes, Ross Gaurnat and Tony Richards are?

I did this today at work to a bunch of customers and the almost universsal response was I have heard of the middle guy but I dont know who he is, but never heard of the other 2.

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Column 2- Read it and think to themselves "if I'm thinking of buying buying what? :huh: " (Housing is not mentioned at all in this column which i assume is the front page) most would bin at this point

That gives me an idea. Why not open with;

This may be the first brochure that is aimed at convincing you to NOT buy.

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I am with tor. Instead of this campaign each one who supports this view should contact the AEC, put $250 down, get the required signatures and make himself an independent choice at the next state or federal election. You have to be in the system to change the system and even then it is bloody difficult to achieve.

I wouldn't agree with this for a number of reasons (as an insider) but there might be something in starting a token protest party with some strong stated policies and some media attention (altho we know how much the papers are corrupted with RE money) called the Affordable Housing Party or some such. AHP comes before ALP in the alphabet ; )

However, even then, half the population would be against you as they have a vested wealth interest in keeping prices high.

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