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zaph

Are we building the wrong housing?

9 posts in this topic

My new burb has a few housing styles.

Massive older (15-25yrs old) Mc Manstions on 700-900 sqm.

Massive newer (0 -15yrs old) Mc Manstions on 450-600 sqm.

A few others.

Townhouses

1-3 hectares of 40+ yrs old small houses ripe for development.

Over the last 10-14 yrs there has been a lot more development into townhouses, rather than vacant blocks. The developers have got their product right for the investor but wrong for the end consumer (renter). 2/3s of THs are rentals. 85% of new THs are sold to investors. Investors want a mini house - some garden, a balcony and patio, one carpark should be enough for tenant etc. Tenants want something different - higher density, small garden, no outside areas, 2.5 parks, more bedrooms and larger lounge areas.

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9 hours ago, zaph said:

My new burb has a few housing styles.

Massive older (15-25yrs old) Mc Manstions on 700-900 sqm.

Massive newer (0 -15yrs old) Mc Manstions on 450-600 sqm.

A few others.

Townhouses

1-3 hectares of 40+ yrs old small houses ripe for development.

Over the last 10-14 yrs there has been a lot more development into townhouses, rather than vacant blocks. The developers have got their product right for the investor but wrong for the end consumer (renter). 2/3s of THs are rentals. 85% of new THs are sold to investors. Investors want a mini house - some garden, a balcony and patio, one carpark should be enough for tenant etc. Tenants want something different - higher density, small garden, no outside areas, 2.5 parks, more bedrooms and larger lounge areas.

Tenants like the high density, because a unit is cheaper to rent than a house. I'm yet to find too many people who like congested Meriton Valleys per se. They all want space from their neighbours and a backyard to raise their kids, which has now become unaffordable.

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9 hours ago, cobran20 said:

Tenants like the high density, because a unit is cheaper to rent than a house. I'm yet to find too many people who like congested Meriton Valleys per se. They all want space from their neighbours and a backyard to raise their kids, which has now become unaffordable.

Some people don't want a backyard to maintain and their kids devices don't work too well in the sunshine. My area is full of Asians and Indians, perhaps unit living is more normal for them. Houses are not that much more expensive to rent than THs.

Buying this place I inspected circa 50 units and walk past that many again in my travels - so I know how people live in these dwellings, in this area. Developers have built places to suit the buyers desires rather than the occupiers, was my point. 'Units' in this area are all THs, no mid or high rise. Typically 3 bed, 2.5 bath, 1 garage; new places some 4 bed, 2.5 bath, 2 garage; outside back area. 80% don't use the outside area or the front balcony. Many other things. 

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I noticed a big difference in utility prices moving to an apartment. I pay about half less for energy, and close to half less for water. My rough estimate is a saving of around $20/week or more. So I'd factor that in if I were moving to a place with poor insulation/standalone dwelling. The annoying thing about many apartments is both the living spaces and bedrooms are too small. Not Japan-style small but uncomfortably small with children.

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10 hours ago, Mr Medved said:

I noticed a big difference in utility prices moving to an apartment. I pay about half less for energy, and close to half less for water. My rough estimate is a saving of around $20/week or more. So I'd factor that in if I were moving to a place with poor insulation/standalone dwelling.

Why do you think? Is it a new(ish) apartment?

Is it more energy efficient? Better insulated? What do you spend most energy on? Heating? Cooling? Laundry? ??

Do you pay for supply of water and removal of poo, or just usage charges? I've found most of the cost is in supply. As a owner I pay that, tenants don't generally. 

The THs in my block have rainwater plumbed in. So the toilets, washing machine and garden hoses are rain water. Haven't had a bill yet tba.

Quote

The annoying thing about many apartments is both the living spaces and bedrooms are too small. 

Compared to what? For what purpose?

My three bed Th would suit:

  • A couple with a couple of babies/young kids. Once the kids got past 11 you'd want something bigger; although with just one kid would probably be ok.
  • Two or three singles sharing.
  • A couple and a single sharing.

Reality - above plus a lot of:

A couple with a couple of babies/young kids ++ grand parents or other relatives living there.

Share, quasi boarding houses. 2 in each bedroom, 1 in lounge and 1 in garage - sometimes more. 8 people in a three bed TH.

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8 minutes ago, zaph said:

Share, quasi boarding houses. 2 in each bedroom, 1 in lounge and 1 in garage - sometimes more. 8 people in a three bed TH.

Opportunities abound for LL and tenant here.

  1. Tenant rents a 3 bed TH for $375 pw, pays the bills and charges the other 7 people $130 pw. Picks up the spoils. Get's moved on now and again.
  2. LL is complicit in 1, so charges them $600Pw and has no restriction on residents. There is a lot of wear and tear on the joint. Something employed when the interior is a few years from it's used by date. 

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On 07/06/2019 at 11:04 PM, zaph said:

Why do you think? Is it a new(ish) apartment?

Is it more energy efficient? Better insulated? What do you spend most energy on? Heating? Cooling? Laundry? ??

Do you pay for supply of water and removal of poo, or just usage charges? I've found most of the cost is in supply. As a owner I pay that, tenants don't generally. 

The THs in my block have rainwater plumbed in. So the toilets, washing machine and garden hoses are rain water. Haven't had a bill yet tba.

Compared to what? For what purpose?

It's no completely new, maybe 10-15 years. There are windows only in the bedroom and living space, otherwise insulation is great. I rarely use heating/cooling. I haven't checked water invoices but the admin charges make up a large percentage. Energy is mainly used on kitchen/laundry appliances and computers.

A lot of places have 3m x 3m bedrooms or smaller, which is too small for my liking. I prefer at least 3x4 or 12-15sqm. The main room should also be big. The one I have now is roughly 6x4.5m which includes the kitchen, so it feels spacey.

 

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On 6/12/2019 at 2:31 PM, Mr Medved said:

It's no completely new, maybe 10-15 years. There are windows only in the bedroom and living space, otherwise insulation is great. I rarely use heating/cooling. I haven't checked water invoices but the admin charges make up a large percentage. Energy is mainly used on kitchen/laundry appliances and computers.

A lot of places have 3m x 3m bedrooms or smaller, which is too small for my liking. I prefer at least 3x4 or 12-15sqm. The main room should also be big. The one I have now is roughly 6x4.5m which includes the kitchen, so it feels spacey.

 

On 6/12/2019 at 2:31 PM, Mr Medved said:

It's no completely new, maybe 10-15 years. There are windows only in the bedroom and living space, otherwise insulation is great. I rarely use heating/cooling. I haven't checked water invoices but the admin charges make up a large percentage. Energy is mainly used on kitchen/laundry appliances and computers.

Hard to see where the energy savings are coming from. Most of your use is made by stuff you brought with you from the house to the apartment. A few less lights couldn't account for the savings.

 

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