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zaph

What do kids cost?

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I sent a joke txt to my sister saying I wanted 13 kids and that I would be rich with all the welfare. She responded 'only if you don't feed or clothe them'. With that many kids you'd be looking at at least $2000 in welfare pw. Couldn't be more than $600pw in food, clothes etc. 

What is wrong with people that they think you need Gucci clothes and lobster for kids? Maybe if we stopped all the welfare then the expectation of lobsters and Gucci would end. 

 

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Oh dear zaph, I think you should stop while the stopping's good. (I say that in all humility, and with due respect to you; and also not because I want you to stop with this line of reasoning, but because I am ultimately afraid of the consequences.)

You are being so rational, but this is one of those subjects that is entirely subjective. Children are not like pets, that you can determine their likes and dislikes to a large degree. Children have a will, and by that I mean, they are capable of putting tremendous pressure on parental nature to provide for their longings.

My own 5 children still complain about how restrictive I was in our household, and with their first paycheck they went out and bought that xbox 360 that I wouldn't get for them. They still say they were deprived and yet they had food on the table, clothing in the cupboard and a bed to sleep in. They should have been totally happy and content. My grandchildren by contrast, I believe are spoilt rotten. They are given $500 birthday presents (have we gone mad!!!!) They each have their own ipads and tv sets in their own rooms! No wonder we are maxxed out as a nation and as individual domestic households.

It is difficult enough not to buy "Tiddles" or "Rover" the best possible food and lodgings, but for children this is only the tip of the iceberg. And when they go to school you discover the real power of peer pressure. The latest fad or craze becomes essential. (Shopkins is now a multi-million dollar industry!)

Even the Target look-alikes won't cut it to fashion savvy children. Don't even start me on technology, and what is now regarded as the must-have for 5 year olds.

I agree with you zaph, that consumerism and materialism are the curse of modern parenting, but there doesn't seem to be any end to the abiity of the marketeers to keep the children engaged.

Good luck with your project.

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My experience is that my perspective changed after having a child - their cost became secondary in importance, along with most of my original goals in life.

A caring parent probably spends what they have on the child, simply because they care.

Of course, our family buys more important things, like my wife working less so she can spend more time with the child - much more important than a label on clothes!

But your material well being takes a back seat in importance. Like I said - a change in perspective can occur....

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10 hours ago, Solomon said:

Children have a will, 

 

Can't you beat that out of them?

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My own 5 children still complain about how restrictive I was in our household,

And you call yourself a man, just five? I'm currently doing my family tree. It was quite common to have 8 kids in the 1880's - a couple would die before majority. My posts on this thread are a mix of 1880 and 2017. 

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and with their first paycheck they went out and bought that xbox 360 that I wouldn't get for them.

I think that's fairly normal behaviour.

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They still say they were deprived

I'm assuming they are now adults? As a young child, I felt deprived. As an Adult, I feel my parents provided a privileged upbringing. 

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My grandchildren by contrast, I believe are spoilt rotten. They are given $500 birthday presents (have we gone mad!!!!) They each have their own ipads and tv sets in their own rooms! 

My niece(15), the only grandchild of my parents is mostly raised by them and they mostly pay her bills. She is spoilt but I think that is because she is the only child in the family. I'll give her $50 for lollies or the movies. My parents confiscate the money and give it back to her for something they think is worthy. She has historically been given the $500 presents. But I've convinced my parents to stop that. My niece wanted the latest Iphone. So she had to save up a deposit and then she could borrow the rest from my parents. She get's $15pw pocket money and $25pw baby sitting money from one of their tenants. 

I think kids struggle with money these days as they don't see it. Growing up, I saw mum put cash into jars for the rates, phone etc. Money is just a card now. 

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(Shopkins is now a multi-million dollar industry!)

I have no idea what Shopkins are and I;m glad of that

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Good luck with your project.

Thanks.

As a gay man in his mid 40's I won't be able to father 13 kids. So I'll need to purchase them. Should I look on gumtree? 

Chinese seem to be the cheapest at around $10k. I want a variety of races. Perhaps some eastern Europeans, a couple of east Africans(Madonna tells me they're cheap), some whites. I'd also like a couple of exotic kids - south American Aboriginals, A Navaho. A Scot. I want one from PNG - the islands. 

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13 hours ago, zaph said:

As a gay man in his mid 40's I won't be able to father 13 kids. So I'll need to purchase them. Should I look on gumtree? 

 

Not with that attitude! As a vasectomied man in his mid forties I can make that claim but I am pretty sure you are just letting your short term desires get in the way of your goals.

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On 10/12/2017 at 8:26 PM, Solomon said:

Children have a will, and by that I mean, they are capable of putting tremendous pressure on parental nature to provide for their longings.

My own 5 children still complain about how restrictive I was in our household, and with their first paycheck they went out and bought that xbox 360 that I wouldn't get for them. They still say they were deprived and yet they had food on the table, clothing in the cupboard and a bed to sleep in. They should have been totally happy and content. My grandchildren by contrast, I believe are spoilt rotten. They are given $500 birthday presents (have we gone mad!!!!) They each have their own ipads and tv sets in their own rooms! No wonder we are maxxed out as a nation and as individual domestic households.

 

I can relate to that. Up to the point where they started part time work in their late teens, they complained that we didn't buy many things they asked, as if money grew on trees.

Once they started part time work and they could only buy their 'desperate needs' with their own money, attitudes changed!

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I have a friend on welfare. Says he gets $2500/fortnight plus public housing (has three kids, the oldest is 18 I think, one is autistic).

Children are expensive but as a parent you don't rationalise them in terms of dollars. My estimate is putting one child through child care for five years (3 days a week) is roughly 100k. That's essentially a post-graduate degree. The government provides a rebate but it's a little under half of that cost, and they can always revoke it.

Toys and clothes actually aren't too expensive, though I haven't got to school clothes yet. I suspect food will get a lot more expensive. Well over half of our living expenses goes towards rent and child care. And we live in a two bedroom apartment. So it's house prices again - jacking up the cost of living.

Solomon - I don't think your children will really appreciate what you do for them until they have children themselves. Brings a whole new perspective.

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3 hours ago, Mr Medved said:

I have a friend on welfare. Says he gets $2500/fortnight plus public housing (has three kids, the oldest is 18 I think, one is autistic).

Children are expensive but as a parent you don't rationalise them in terms of dollars. My estimate is putting one child through child care for five years (3 days a week) is roughly 100k. That's essentially a post-graduate degree. The government provides a rebate but it's a little under half of that cost, and they can always revoke it.

Toys and clothes actually aren't too expensive, though I haven't got to school clothes yet. I suspect food will get a lot more expensive. Well over half of our living expenses goes towards rent and child care. And we live in a two bedroom apartment. So it's house prices again - jacking up the cost of living.

Solomon - I don't think your children will really appreciate what you do for them until they have children themselves. Brings a whole new perspective.

Unless both parents (worse still for single parent) are reasonably good money, the cost of child care is such that one of them might as well stay at home and look after them. Otherwise, just about all the after tax income goes to pay for child care.

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5 hours ago, Mr Medved said:

I have a friend on welfare. Says he gets $2500/fortnight plus public housing (has three kids, the oldest is 18 I think, one is autistic).

 

That's a lot of money. I guess he doesn't work and get's the dole or pension. I bet he will feel a lot poorer when the kids are adults and his welfare drops back to just him.

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Children are expensive but as a parent you don't rationalise them in terms of dollars. My estimate is putting one child through child care for five years (3 days a week) is roughly 100k. That's essentially a post-graduate degree. The government provides a rebate but it's a little under half of that cost, and they can always revoke it.

A lot of aspects of children don't have to be expensive, but people want want a lot for their kids. Childcare seems to be the real killer.

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2 hours ago, cobran20 said:

Unless both parents (worse still for single parent) are reasonably good money, the cost of child care is such that one of them might as well stay at home and look after them. Otherwise, just about all the after tax income goes to pay for child care.

I think the world would be a better place if more families had one parent (if there are two) stay home and look after the kids. One not working could also eliminate some costs - eg 2nd car, work clothes, expensive conveniences.

There's also the ability of the stay at home parent to do some work. My mother did ironing from home for a while. She worked part-time at a factory for some time. She would look after some of the other workers' kids when she wasn't working and they'd look after us when she was working. For some time she worked a few evenings a week and weekends as a waitress when dad was home and could look after us. 

Do single parents get more child care or other welfare? Subject to income I think they should.

My parents have a granny flat they rent to a single woman with two kids, we'll call her Jane. She works as a phlebotomist, so wouldn't be on huge money. She works business hours so her kids are in care 5 days a week. She still manages to go back to India twice a year. So I don't think the system is broken. It helps her finances that she only pays $260 pw rent, including power. 

Jane has recently moved her kids from normal child care to home-based childcare. The kids are looked after in someone's home. The providers have to be certified, only have x kids under their care etc for Jane to get the childcare handouts. It's a lot cheaper and I think costs her near nothing after the subsidies. 

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