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zaph

Ops I didn't realise I was a citizen

45 posts in this topic

Sounds like Frydenberg is in a similar position to the pollies that the High Court rule were not dual citizens.

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ANOTHER MP has become entangled in the citizenship debacle, assistant Immigration Minister Alex Hawke being forced to deny he could be a dual Greek citizen.

Mr Hawke, who represents Mitchell in northwestern Sydney, said he has “solely held Australian citizenship” after it was revealed his mother was born in Greece and migrated to Australia in the 1950s.

Earlier this year Mr Hawke’s Liberal colleagues, Julia Banks and Industry Minister Arthur Sinodinos, also had to deny they were dual Greek citizens.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/dual-citizenship-row-alex-hawke-denies-being-greek-through-his-mothers-ancestry/news-story/e9a06b81ad1824a062dbeafcfd0fcf6b

 

Looks like a couple more byelections coming up.

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I understand the idea of the law. Given the complexity of that concept in a modern world surely the easiest thing is to just have a basic statement "I renounce all other citizenships" form on being elected which then gets sent to every other country in whatever standardised manner the other countries require would be the best solution.

I seriously doubt many of these people are going to be double agents and, if so, I doubt renouncing their citizenship would stop them.

Seems like a waste of money to me to do an audit. Just carpet bomb the statement everywhere.

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Turnbull government MP John Alexander is scrambling to confirm whether he is a dual citizen, which if proven would trigger a byelection that would further threaten the Coalition's grip on power.

Fairfax Media can reveal Mr Alexander's father, Gilbert Alexander, was born in the UK and is likely to have conferred citizenship by descent to his son. Mr Alexander has never before been named as an MP with a parent born overseas, meaning his status has flown under the radar since the citizenship saga first erupted in July.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull on Monday revealed all federal politicians will be required to publicly detail their citizenship history under new transparency measures designed to end the crisis.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/federal/citizenship-crisis-turnbull-government-mp-john-alexander-may-be-a-dual-citizen-20171106-gzflz6.html

 

Another one. 

Turnbull's solution? Tick a box on a form! No one would tick the wrong box surely?

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2 hours ago, zaph said:

 

Another one. 

Turnbull's solution? Tick a box on a form! No one would tick the wrong box surely?

An independent audit would be better. But the declaration to the parliament that each member will be required to make apparently can attract a heavy fine or prison for providing a false declaration, according to a reporter this morning on ABC News.

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Pauline Hanson says she will check with the British Home Office to ensure she's not a dual citizen.

A day after she stressed she had no reason to worry about being caught in the parliamentary citizenship crisis, the One Nation leader on Wednesday agreed to check her standing.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland-election-2017/hanson-to-check-with-british-home-office-over-citizenship-20171108-p4ywwe.html

 

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What a circus!

I'm inclined to agree with Tor on this. It should be easy to construct a simple declaration that every member of parliament signs at the time of nomination declaring that they will not be subject to the laws and regulations of another country, and renounce all citizenship of any foreign land.

Of course that doesn't solve the current crisis whereby people were already citizens.

We may have to go to the polls again to fully satisfy the suggestion above

Otherwise any decisions of this entire government since its inception may be brought into dispute. (Tied up in the High Court for months.)

I often wonder how many laws I break everyday, because of just plain ignorance. Still, the highest citizens of the country are expected to comply with the constitution.

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4 minutes ago, Solomon said:

It should be easy to construct a simple declaration that every member of parliament signs at the time of nomination declaring that they will not be subject to the laws and regulations of another country, and renounce all citizenship of any foreign land.

 

It would be easy but would be unlikely to conform to the constitution. Ticking a box on a form in Australia is unlikely to constitute taking reasonable steps. There would need to be some effort taken to renounce the foreign citizenship of that country to be reasonable. A simple declaration option would require a change to the constitution. They rarely succeed. 

It would be just as easy to fill out the paperwork to renounce citizenship of the country you no longer want to be associated with and lodge it with that country. 

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Of course that doesn't solve the current crisis whereby people were already citizens.

We may have to go to the polls again to fully satisfy the suggestion above

 

I think that is what may happen. I can already see some libs sharpening their daggers to get the top job ahead of an election. 

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I often wonder how many laws I break everyday, because of just plain ignorance. Still, the highest citizens of the country are expected to comply with the constitution.

Plenty I would imagine.

When I apply for a job I really want I make sure I comply with all the requests of the prospective employer.

  • 3 copies of my CV - check
  • Proof of lawful ability to work in Australia - check
  • Copy of my qualifications - check
  • A photo of me wearing a pink tutu - check.

I may ask myself why the employer doesn't have a photocopier or what a tutu has to do with anything, but if I want the job I comply with the request. I don't just send in my CV with no covering letter.

This whole thing is absolute laziness by politicians. 

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Another federal MP has been caught up in the citizenship crisis, with crossbench MP Rebekha Sharkie revealing new details that could call into question her eligibility for parliament.

But Ms Sharkie, who moved to Australia from England as a one-year-old and has previously said she had made sure she renounced her dual citizenship before the 2016 election, won't be referring herself to the High Court - despite Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull taking the unusual step of calling her directly and suggesting she do so.

 https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/federal/citizenship-crisis-bites-nxt-mp-rebekha-sharkie-20171109-gzi5t9.html

 

This just keeps growing. No need for an audit though.

By the end of the year a majority will be three. 

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8 hours ago, Solomon said:

What a circus!

I'm inclined to agree with Tor on this. It should be easy to construct a simple declaration that every member of parliament signs at the time of nomination declaring that they will not be subject to the laws and regulations of another country, and renounce all citizenship of any foreign land.

Of course that doesn't solve the current crisis whereby people were already citizens.

We may have to go to the polls again to fully satisfy the suggestion above

Otherwise any decisions of this entire government since its inception may be brought into dispute. (Tied up in the High Court for months.)

I often wonder how many laws I break everyday, because of just plain ignorance. Still, the highest citizens of the country are expected to comply with the constitution.

Short of changing the constitution (unlikely), an independent audit of winning candidates is the only other serious option. To avoid embarrassment, electoral candidates should voluntarily get checked before the election.

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If true, this is absolute insanity and justification for changing the laws. Even auditors would struggle to keep up with all possible breaches. :wacko:

Citizenship crisis: Turnbull government MP Nola Marino may be an Italian citizen by marriage

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Turnbull government MP Nola Marino may have acquired Italian citizenship through marriage, in what would represent a new twist in the eligibility crisis that has engulfed the federal Parliament....

 

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33 minutes ago, cobran20 said:

If true, this is absolute insanity and justification for changing the laws. Even auditors would struggle to keep up with all possible breaches. :wacko:

Citizenship crisis: Turnbull government MP Nola Marino may be an Italian citizen by marriage

 

It's an outdated silly law. But it is the law.

I know I'm a British citizen by descent. If I was to run for parliament I'd check out if I could be an Austrian citizen too. I wouldn't imagine being a citizen by who I married though. 

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Surely the government department that deals with foreigners would know the procedure for checking / renouncing citizenship better than pretty much anyone else.

So just use them to fill in the paperwork renouncing citizenship from every country in the world automatically when someone gets elected.

 

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21 hours ago, tor said:

Surely the government department that deals with foreigners would know the procedure for checking / renouncing citizenship better than pretty much anyone else.

So just use them to fill in the paperwork renouncing citizenship from every country in the world automatically when someone gets elected.

 

I agree with your suggestion Tor. The only trouble is: .... it seems to be required when you nominate.

Imagine the work involved with nomination for members of the senate. I think the last ballot had 120 candidates just for Queensland.

I just think there has to be some mechanism that would allow the matter to be dealt with, without the imposition being placed back on the individual. Once this fiasco calms down, apathy will again creep in, and we could face a similar situation in 10 - 20 years time.

It would seem the parliament should only be made up with indigenous persons, who are the only ones who have a valid claim to single citizenship. The rest of us, probably have some migrant heritage in our past.

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Former NSW premier Kristina Keneally will be Labor's star candidate in the Bennelong byelection.

The shock announcement means Labor could have a strong chance of seizing the seat from the Liberals on December 16, putting the Turnbull government's majority under threat.

 https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/federal/former-nsw-premier-kristina-keneally-to-stand-for-labor-in-bennelong-byelection-20171114-gzkrn6.html

 

I have no idea how popular Keneally is in NSW and Bennelong, but 'star' candidates tend to do well. 

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19 minutes ago, zaph said:

 

I have no idea how popular Keneally is in NSW and Bennelong, but 'star' candidates tend to do well. 

They tried the ABC star who lasted 1 term. Perhaps this is a repeat.

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