AndersB

Geopolitics

57 posts in this topic

7% is a pretty good return on investment isn't it? Not sure where you will find a much better rate of return. Only risk I can think of would be electricity costs going down over that period which seems fairly unlikely.

 

The improvement in solar technology has been pretty impressive and if you are at a point where you can actually afford it and get a 7% return on your money doesn't that seem like the subsidies have made a positive difference?

 

I am on the side of "the subsidies went to the wrong area" personally and think we could have gotten even better returns for the money but arguing it should all be removed leaves us waiting for a high entry fee industry change. High entry fee industries don't tend to change that often if the incumbent sees no point in changing.

 

As an example, how many of the auto companies put any real effort into electric cars before the market was presented with the choice? Government subsidies and tax schemes, I think you agree, definitely spurred on that development and now all the old incumbents have them. I think you agree that electric cars are a good thing.

 

I agree pebble reactors have issues, nuclear power was just the first thing that sprang to mind which seems unlikely to replace fossil fuel without government subsidies.

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7% is a pretty good return on investment isn't it? Not sure where you will find a much better rate of return. Only risk I can think of would be electricity costs going down over that period which seems fairly unlikely.

 

The improvement in solar technology has been pretty impressive and if you are at a point where you can actually afford it and get a 7% return on your money doesn't that seem like the subsidies have made a positive difference?

 

I am on the side of "the subsidies went to the wrong area" personally and think we could have gotten even better returns for the money but arguing it should all be removed leaves us waiting for a high entry fee industry change. High entry fee industries don't tend to change that often if the incumbent sees no point in changing.

 

As an example, how many of the auto companies put any real effort into electric cars before the market was presented with the choice? Government subsidies and tax schemes, I think you agree, definitely spurred on that development and now all the old incumbents have them. I think you agree that electric cars are a good thing.

 

I agree pebble reactors have issues, nuclear power was just the first thing that sprang to mind which seems unlikely to replace fossil fuel without government subsidies.

 

What is this 7% ROI? If it was based on the solar rebate provided by the government, then IMO, it is a 'false' profit underwritten by tax payers. Government subsidies are meant to be for short periods of time to get a strategic industry going until it stands on its feet. Without subsidies, solar energy for home use will not make economic sense to many like myself until battery technology  improves and is cost effective so that I can store the electricity generated during the day and use it at night. Solar energy has been subsidised for years and it is has not made a significant reduction in the use of fossil fuel.

 

The biggest technological changes made throughout history (steam engine, internal combustion engines, phone, etc) did not require endless subsidies from governments and their use propagated to the masses easily enough. Governments should concentrate on encouraging competition and freedom of entry to ensure consumers are not ripped off by monopolies.

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"I've looked at the economics of installing solar on my house now that subsidies have been removed and I calculated that it would take me about 10 years to recover the investment"

 

7% return given that domestic solar has a 20 - 25 yr life span from memory. Ooops forgot to depreciate the value of the panels, let's be pessimistic and say 3.5% over a 20 yr period then. Still, not to shabby an investment given the risk profile.

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"I've looked at the economics of installing solar on my house now that subsidies have been removed and I calculated that it would take me about 10 years to recover the investment"

 

7% return given that domestic solar has a 20 - 25 yr life span from memory. Ooops forgot to depreciate the value of the panels, let's be pessimistic and say 3.5% over a 20 yr period then. Still, not to shabby an investment given the risk profile.

 

Other than the fact that solar panels do need maintenance and can get damaged during hail storms, I don't consider it a good investment if it takes me 10 year to get the return, especially when I may not live in the place that long. Also not sure how much value it would add to a house when selling if the electricity company offers about 6c/kw on electricity the panels generate.

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Fair enough. For your lifestyle investment choices have to changed. You do agree that from 20 yrs ago to now the change is somewhat massive though yeah?

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Fair enough. For your lifestyle investment choices have to changed. You do agree that from 20 yrs ago to now the change is somewhat massive though yeah?

 

It has been. It was also not caused by the massive subsidies on home solar systems, but by the R&D undertaken by Universities & private organisations.

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I dunno, I figure it is probably a complex system involving the proposed carbon tax (which would have spurred R&D by incumbents that would have had to pay the tax), the votes which would be swayed by Green Stuff and so on. Certainly if a lot of voters didn't believe in climate change I doubt things would have changed.

 

Either way I think the R&D happening and the tech maturing so quickly is a good thing. More knowledge is good most of the time.

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