cobran20

SMH: Holden to cease manufacturing in 2017

42 posts in this topic

Shouldn't be long before Toyota follows.

 

link

 

to quote one of the comments posted:

 

 

See you Holden. Maybe the next country you open business you will become competitive and innovative to keep up with trends. I am glad the Government stood ground. Stop asking for hand outs.. manage your own company.

 

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Hard to believe but they're gone.  But so is Pontiac and I am a huge fan of the 60's GTO.  Things change, I suppose.  

 

Hopefully cars get cheaper now that Australia is pretty much out of the car-making business.  We could use those savings to leverage up our property fetish.

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Hard to believe but they're gone.  But so is Pontiac and I am a huge fan of the 60's GTO.  Things change, I suppose.  

 

Hopefully cars get cheaper now that Australia is pretty much out of the car-making business.  We could use those savings to leverage up our property fetish.

 

If you remove the fleet sales to governments (another form of subsidy), the Commodore & Falcon are not selling all that many vehicles.

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Does this mean we can get rid of the salary sacrifice rort that was supposed to support the local car industry?

 

I'm not unhappy about the demise of the car industry per se. The tax payer shouldn't be propping up an unsustainable industry. My main concern is whether the government has a plan B for the country given manufacturing is declining. Education cuts, a second rate NBN and policies to boost house prices as the only answer to the end of a resources boom don't bode well.

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Does this mean we can get rid of the salary sacrifice rort that was supposed to support the local car industry?

 

I'm not unhappy about the demise of the car industry per se. The tax payer shouldn't be propping up an unsustainable industry. My main concern is whether the government has a plan B for the country given manufacturing is declining. Education cuts, a second rate NBN and policies to boost house prices as the only answer to the end of a resources boom don't bode well.

 

Perhaps the car workers can be re-trained to build more Meriton Valleys that can be sold to the chinese?!  ^_^

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I'm not unhappy about the demise of the car industry per se. The tax payer shouldn't be propping up an unsustainable industry. My main concern is whether the government has a plan B for the country given manufacturing is declining. Education cuts, a second rate NBN and policies to boost house prices as the only answer to the end of a resources boom don't bode well.

Plan B involves protecting oligopolies and vested interests. We'll see how that fares out over the long run.

 

TBH it's better to focus on a personal Plan B rather than the gubment's.

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Education cuts, a second rate NBN and policies to boost house prices as the only answer to the end of a resources boom don't bode well.

 

But the more that house prices go up, the wealthier we all get. People can withdraw their equity from their house and spend, spend, spend, lining everybody's pockets with cash!

 

The effect gets enhanced by the multiplier, and because we're all wealthier, we can spend more on houses. Therefore prices go up and people can withdraw even more equity and spend even more. BOOM BABY!!!*

 

*or not

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Bugger, I thought one of you chaps was going to enlighten me as to some hitherto unknown strategy where we skate through like Bradbury.

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my plan is union members super funds chip in and buy  out the Australian business. after all  unions know how to run a business better than the owners so should be a piece of piss to get the thing in the black again

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my plan is union members super funds chip in and buy  out the Australian business. after all  unions know how to run a business better than the owners so should be a piece of piss to get the thing in the black again

+1  :thumbup:

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hey i got a like. i thought about it some more. ...  isnt tony putting costs into the next govs budget with his plans to bail out the workers?  and s for the union  owne car company. they have 4 years to cut a deal with GM sure something could be wrangled out in that time?

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hey i got a like. i thought about it some more. ...  isnt tony putting costs into the next govs budget with his plans to bail out the workers?  and s for the union  owne car company. they have 4 years to cut a deal with GM sure something could be wrangled out in that time?

 

To make the industry viable in this country, the cost of production will require severe pruning and they need to export a substantial volume to get the economies of scale. Since GM & Toyota have manufacturing plants worldwide, getting them to promote the local industry at the expense of other plants may not necessarily be in their plans.

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yeh i take it the 2017 date is when a new model is  expected, and retooling plans are now under way. funny thing about GM is that without a massive bailout by USgov back in 08 they would have left  our shores 5 years ago. , prob in a steaming heap.so 9 years to plan  and extra income from a failed company is a pretty good run. no one should be complaining.*** except maybe the original  GM bond holders **

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It is easy and, I suspect will become easier, to blame idiots in the unions for destroying the companies paying their wages.

 

But realistically there are lots of people out there who have the job of removing fault prone humans from doing anything important. I am one.If you don't think I can automate your job you would want to be confident in this because if I can't someone else of my ilk probably can. Or (to be nice) automate some 90% of it.

 

What people like me are creating is a world where none of you have jobs.

 

Even we don't really want that under the current system. The unions are, badly, trying to stop me and my kind. But economics will win and we need to find a new society where your job is not important for your ego. Hell I automated most of me years ago.

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All out!

 

SMH: Toyota to exit Australia, 30,000 jobs could go

 

 

The end of Australia's car manufacturing industry has arrived, with Toyota on Monday telling its 4200 local staff it  will no longer make cars in Melbourne beyond 2017.


A small army of security guards assembled at the company’s Altona plant in Melbourne, ahead of the annual address by Toyota Australia president Max Yasuda on Monday afternoon.

They were told of Toyota's decision to end local manufacturing in 2017, with an estimated 2500 manufacturing workers to lose their jobs at Toyota's Altona plant.

In less than 12 months, all three of Australia's car manufacturers - Ford, Holden and now Toyota - have pulled the pin on the local industry.

The decision is a massive blow for the economies of Victoria and South Australia.

The parts industry alone employs 18,000 people in Victoria and 6000 in South Australia.

"Toyota Australia today announced that it will stop building cars in Australia by the end of 2017 and become a national sales and distribution company," the company said in a media statement.

"This means that local manufacturing of the Camry, Camry Hybrid and Aurion vehicles, as well as the production of four-cylinder engines, will cease by the end of 2017.

"The decision was not based on any single factor. The market and economic factors contributing to the decision include the unfavourable Australian dollar that makes exports unviable, high costs of manufacturing and low economies of scale for our vehicle production and local supplier base," the statement said.

"Together with one of the most open and fragmented automotive markets in the world and increased competitiveness due to current and future  free trade agreements, it is not viable to continue building cars in Australia."

Toyota Australia chief Mr Yasuda said the company had done everything it could to transform its business.

“But the reality is that there are too many factors beyond our control that make it unviable to build cars in Australia,” he said

Industry Minister Ian MacFarlane said the federal government was in discussions to provide further assistance to Toyota, but those discussiona ''have been curtailed by the decision the company made today''.

Mr MacFarlane also said that ''hundreds of thousands of workers are made redundant every year'', and the Australian economy was able to provide jobs and other options for those people.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott also took a hard line on Toyota’s decision to close local manufacturing. ''While some businesses close, other businesses open, while some jobs end, other jobs start,'’ he said. ‘’The challenge of government at all levels is to ensure there are more jobs starting than ending.

‘Nothing we can say or do can limit the impact and devastation today that some people feel .. . [but] there will be better days in the future.’’  

Federal Opposition Leader Bill Shorten laid the blame for Toyota's demise at the feet of the Abbott government.

‘‘It's an unmitigated disaster,’’ he said.  ‘‘The car industry has died under the Abbott government. It's a disgrace.’’

‘‘Tony Abbott does not give a stuff about jobs in Australia, he is just busy playing political games and stunts.’’

Mr Shorten said Toyota executives had told him their decision to quit Australia had nothing to do with overly generous workers’ conditions.

He put Toyota’s exit down to a combination of the high Australian dollar, the small size of the local market, the collapse of Holden and the pressure that put on component manufacturers.

Victorian Premier Denis Napthine said he was told of the decision by the president of Toyota Corporation, Akio Toyoda, that the company would cease production in Australia.

''I am extremely disappointed by this sudden decision and would clearly have preferred to have had the opportunity to work through these issues with Toyota and the federal government,'' he said.

''My thoughts go immediately to Toyota workers and their families as well as workers across the supply chain. The Victorian Coalition government stands ready to do everything we can to support workers and their families.''

Labor industry spokesman Kim Carr was furious with the decision.

''Tony Abbott has effectively chased them out of Australia,'' Mr Carr said. ‘‘This is a government that prides itself on its capacity to destroy industries. 2013 was a referendum on the future of the automotive industry. I am truly appalled. The social and economic implications of this decision for Australian manufacturing are disastrous.

‘‘None of this was necessary, this was never inevitable. What is the alternative for the 30,000 auto workers in Victoria?''

Mr Carr said the Labor government had budgeted $200 million to help Toyota build the next-generation Camry in Australia beyond 2017.

''This government has a viciousness to it, a callous disregard for the social consequences,'' he said.

''Toyota made it very clear that they need a long-term consistent globally competitive policy suitable to attract future investment.''

Unions laid the blame for the announcement on Prime Minister Tony Abbott, saying the closure came as a result of the Coalition ‘‘refusing to support investment in Australia’’.

And one union official predicted the departure of Toyota could throw Australia’s eastern states into recession. Australian Manufacturing Workers Union vehicle division secretary Dave Smith said the closure in 2017 would be devastating for thousands of workers and the entire Australian manufacturing industry.

‘‘This decision will see thousands of jobs exit Australia – not only at Toyota directly but all the way down the supply chain,’’ Mr Smith said. ‘‘The magnitude of this decision in the community cannot be underestimated. We are looking at a potential recession all along the south-eastern seaboard.’’

Mr Smith said the government was ‘‘chasing important and viable operations out of Australia. This is serious injections of foreign capital we are waving goodbye to across the manufacturing sector.’’
He said there was not a a car industry in the world that did not receive government support.

“If you value something, you invest in it. This government is driving jobs and our economy into the ground.”

Last month Industry Minister Ian McFarlane estimated that 30,000 jobs could be gone from the industry in less than three years if Toyota quit the country.

In May last year Ford announced it would cease production in Australia, with an estimated 1200 Victorian workers to lose their jobs in October 2016.

Then, in December, General Motors Holden announced it would also end local manufacturing, a move that would force 2900 staff out of jobs, including 1300 in Victoria.

A review of the parts industry, by Allens Consulting Group for the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries found that local car makers spend $2.25 billion a year with suppliers in Victoria and $600 million in South Australia.

Toyota’s future has been in doubt following a Productivity Commission recommendation that the federal government end all subsidies of the car industry.

Toyota had consistently stated it needed to cut labour costs as part of an overall move to reduce production costs per car by $3800 by 2018 and keep the car maker in Australia.

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Finally. It might cause some people to leave Australia and lower living costs for the remaining public in return.

 

Alternatively, the price of labour in Australia is on its painful road to becoming competitive with the rest of the world.

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Alternatively, the price of labour in Australia is on its painful road to becoming competitive with the rest of the world.

 

Au contraire, Skippynomics dictates that all news is good news and results in higher wages and house prices.

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there are lots of people out there who have the job of removing fault prone humans from doing anything important. I am one.If you don't think I can automate your job you would want to be confident in this because if I can't someone else of my ilk probably can. Or (to be nice) automate some 90% of it.

What people like me are creating is a world where none of you have jobs. .

Apologies to the late reply to this post tor but I cannot resist.

I reckon what you say above would be similar to what the inventor of the spinning Jenny would have thought when he developed a machine that could do the work of 12 people. This was in the mid 18th century.

What is strange to me about this situation but of some comfort; no matter what labour saving devices are created new jobs seem to appear to take those that were lost.

Even significant inventions like the steam engine that could power machines like the above spinning Jenny, that would have taken the labour of hundreds of people to output the same as a single machine prior to the industrial revolution, only seemed to increase our appetite for more things we couldn't previously afford as opposed to putting people out of jobs.

In the short term a labour saving invention no doubt has a negative impact on employment of those doing certain jobs but it seems then we just all want more stuff to compensate.

My expectation is that if humans get somewhere close to having machines that make unlimited food, shelter, energy and stuff then we will try colonising mars or some other pursuit that will keep us workers, working. It always seems to be the way with humanity.

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I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

 

I have some concerns about the change though.

 

1. The speed at which we can make these replacements is changing. The jenny took ages to replace the previous industry. I think we are on the cusp of changes being stupendously fast. 3d printing gives us rapid prototyping and even now can be used for some rapid deployment. I don't see 3d printing getting worse. The ability to transmit plans digitally makes it cheap and fast.

 

2. The speed of the change means the short term prejudices of society will have more impact. With previous major changes there was more time for people to see what was happening (although arguably mostly they did nothing anyway) and make plans to avoid massive civil issues. When agriculture became a focus of labour saving devices and economies of scale were viable it tended to happen in fits and starts. The cotton mill took some 50 years for all of the components to be developed and it to be a huge changer. We look like replacing entire industries in fractions of that time. Cab drivers would be smart to be getting ready to be extinct in a few years. Not much time to train up for a new career.

 

3. That 50 years gave society time to change it's opinions about things and so came up with ideas to support society with these new fangled things (e.g. the UK factory laws). Even then the change lead to some pretty nasty periods and places of history. We are experiencing changes such as bitcoin so fast that people can't even agree if it is money or not (from a regulatory perspective).

 

4. On top of all that the changes in the past have tended towards individual industries at a time. We seem now to be looking at the replacement of the core idea of "spend X hours at Y place for Z dollars".

 

So yes I agree people will find something to do eventually. How else do we impress ladies? But I wonder how painful that change period will be. And of course how to avoid being one of the people that gets caught up in the painful bits.

Edited by tor

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So yes I agree people will find something to do eventually. How else do we impress ladies? But I wonder how painful that change period will be. And of course how to avoid being one of the people that gets caught up in the painful bits.

I know you don't like praise but that was a very convincing post so deserves it!

While it comes naturally for me to take a textbook view of economics in reality these changes could see chunks of whole generations spend time in the unemployment heap. When you then ask; could it be me? you then realise at least in my case. Yes...

For these auto workers I would guess some at least would be well placed to work in the oil and gas industry being already from a highly automated workplace but this will not apply to all.

And as you point out cabbies and the like along with many other occupations and professions will likely disappear over the next 30years with far worse prospects.

I have a question about 3d printers? How do they pour concrete? And presumably you still need Formwork and steel?

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Yeah I totally hate praise, stop doing it, stop it :)

 

The oil and gas industry (from my perspective) is not much different to a brewery. Look at the changes happening there (especially with regard to continuous distillation which is now old news from a decade ago) and they might find themselves arse ending out of one industry into the arse end of another. What is a little scary is that it might actually be the best option available.

 

If a 3d printer can print human cells for a functional body organ I don't think printing formwork or steel is going to be such an issue.

 

Interestingly one of the areas I figure might be safe from automation is forging iron. The quality of swords produced once the trip hammer made it to japan was atrocious. Simply because the metal guy was now a metre away from the ingot. 1 metre. To make _really_ strong bits of metal there are a lot of situational things which must be taken into account. Crane hooks are made from _really_ strong metal. The lead time to learn it is way way insane.

 

Long lead times to learn things is a good indicator of "hard to automate" in my opinion. Especially when the lead time is working at several different levels.

 

So automating a GP who gives a diagnosis is relatively simple. Google outperforms most GP's already if you have the time or inclination to google stuff.

 

Automating the doctor that can hypnotise you (the girlfriend experienced that when she broke her arm) or the doctor that can make you feel calm (I experienced that when the anaesthetics didn't work) is less easy I suspect.

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Hmm yes if they can do a heart or kidney then yes a bit of form ply should be no issue.

Presumably building things with a 3d printer would see different materials used. Concrete I imagine is tougher for a 3d printer but a homogenous product like plastics would be easier. The Formwork also has to be removed from the concrete with plastics it would not necessarily be needed if they have a rapid cure time in air.

Well at least all those who have been put out of work with advancements in normal printing might have a second crack with 3d printing as it takes off. ;)

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