Dose

Fairfax: The Yellow Peril is upon us

513 posts in this topic

It's a very big token!

Perhaps in monetary terms. But I suspect not in terms of the number rorting the system. I'll wait until this approach becomes a 'regular' news event.

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Perhaps in monetary terms. But I suspect not in terms of the number rorting the system. I'll wait until this approach becomes a 'regular' news event.

The monetary amount and the fact it involves a billionaire make it very news/Chinese whisper worthy. Yes, it's a token as far as the number who have rorted the system but perhaps not a token as far as those that may rort the system. 

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Perhaps we forum members should have a collection and see if we can make firm offer of $390 out of the kindness of our heart!   :)

 

Forced sale of $39 million Point Piper mansion could result in bargain basement price

 

 

... Given that the waterfront mansion Altona took six years to sell, some agents are suggesting that the deadline could see the luxury five-bedroom mansion go for a bargain basement price....

 

Is Hockey reading this?:

 

 

...One of the most high-profile sales is the Point Piper waterfront mansion Altona, which sold for $52 million in 2013 to a Melbourne-based man who is widely tipped to be a front for wealthy Chinese businessman Shu Wang.

 
Other big money purchases by Chinese buyers in Point Piper in recent years include the former mansion Craig-y-Mor, which was bought for $32.4 million by Zeng Wei, the son of China's former vice-president Zeng Qinghong, and his wife Jiang Mei.
 
Qiu Yafu, the chairman of Shandong Ruyi and the major shareholder in Queensland's Cubbie station is the owner of the "Bang and Olufsen" house, also on Wolseley Road, although that purchase was made in the name of his accountant Christopher Walker.
Edited by cobran20

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Anybody from here been ringing Joe?  ^_^

 

Joe Hockey says search is on for illegal foreign home purchases after tipoffs

 

 

The government will investigate all realistic evidence of illegal foreign purchases of real estate and is receiving scores of tipoffs from around the countryJoe Hockey has said.

A day after the government ordered the Hong Kong property developer and billionaire Xu Jiayin to sell a $39m Sydney harbourside mansion – allegedly illegally acquired through an Australian front company – the treasurer said he was receiving information about other improperly acquired homes in cities other than Sydney and in lower price ranges...

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From memory when buying my place I did not have to prove my citizenship. I only had to prove my identity to the bank to borrow. 

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While I am pleased that attention has been given to foreigners buying up Australian property, and sincerely hope it spreads further than the high profile mansion (I'm good for $20 BTW), I worry about the tipping off that could follow. Witch hunts. Dob in your foreign looking neighbours with their smelly cheeses.

 

I would much rather they identify these people by cross-checking their files. Set up systems at the time of purchase. Hang electrocute prosecute some realestate agents to stop them bypassing the system. Etc.

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While I am pleased that attention has been given to foreigners buying up Australian property, and sincerely hope it spreads further than the high profile mansion (I'm good for $20 BTW), I worry about the tipping off that could follow. Witch hunts. Dob in your foreign looking neighbours with their smelly cheeses.

 

I would much rather they identify these people by cross-checking their files. Set up systems at the time of purchase. Hang electrocute prosecute some realestate agents to stop them bypassing the system. Etc.

 

I doubt that there will be witch hunts. The government agency will need to get solid evidence before they can issue an eviction notice. But I can see a few court challenges coming up.

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heh

 

"prosecute lawyers". That sounds like a fun game! what could go wrong?

 

Wouldn't it make more sense (from a New Zealanders perspective, and remember we owned more of Australia than Australians did at one point [i think - the Lion Nathan thing from memory]) to just make a f*ck ton of houses to sell to anyone that wanted them? Locals get houses, Foreigners bring all their shiny shiny money into Australia?

 

Like mining without so much of the dirty sweaty bits. Plus smaller tools (ahahaha I know what I did there and I f*cking love it).

 

It's a big f*cking country, you'll run out of demand well before you run out of land.

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heh

 

"prosecute lawyers". That sounds like a fun game! what could go wrong?

 

Wouldn't it make more sense (from a New Zealanders perspective, and remember we owned more of Australia than Australians did at one point [i think - the Lion Nathan thing from memory]) to just make a f*ck ton of houses to sell to anyone that wanted them? Locals get houses, Foreigners bring all their shiny shiny money into Australia?

 

Like mining without so much of the dirty sweaty bits. Plus smaller tools (ahahaha I know what I did there and I f*cking love it).

 

It's a big f*cking country, you'll run out of demand well before you run out of land.

 

It's not just any land, but land where people want to live, work, etc. I'm sure that land in the Simpson desert would be cheap, but I doubt  that there is much demand for it!

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Australia is the size of europe. Bringing up the simpson desert is like saying "no one want to live in the alps".

 

Given the choice of:

- ban foreigners money, continue with policies seemingly designed to keep prices high, fight lawyers.

- give everyone a bloody house, spend lawyer money on infrastructure to spread the cities

 

I know which one will happen but I have a guess which one is better for Australia.

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Australia is the size of europe. Bringing up the simpson desert is like saying "no one want to live in the alps".

 

Given the choice of:

- ban foreigners money, continue with policies seemingly designed to keep prices high, fight lawyers.

- give everyone a bloody house, spend lawyer money on infrastructure to spread the cities

 

I know which one will happen but I have a guess which one is better for Australia.

 

Did you really mean 'give everyone a house' or make housing affordable? One makes sense, the other is questionable!

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"Affordable", I suspect, in the near future will mean "give".

 

In the meantime aiming for affordable will at least start changing the mindset of houses being in the "produces nothing, increases in value based on demand" investment class and maybe relegate it back to the "landlord" type of investment.

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This is from a residents' action group in Melbourne (BRAG):

 

 

 

I attended the Forum on Foreign Investment on the 10th March in South Vermont where Kelly O’Dwyer MP, who has been studying this issue, was guest speaker to a packed hall.    Kelly O’Dwyer explained what they are proposing and I must admit I came away feeling depressed for the future of  Australia.

 

Compliments must be in order in that they at least acknowledging there is a fault and trying to correct it.  One good thing,  it seems the Foreign Investment Board is being sacked as they have failed in their job as nobody has been fined since 2006 and we all know how the rules have been ignored and thousands of our houses have been bought by foreigner investors.     However I have heard their solutions described as a Claytons solution, the solution you are having when you don’t want a solution. And having heard it, that is how I felt too.

 

WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED

The Government, both sides,  see this foreign investment as good as it is supposed to provide  more homes,  so it will continue,  but with a  tough new regulatory body, new rules and charges will apply.  But those new charges are only a few thousand dollars and that is nothing when they spend millions on a property.

 

      The one interesting thing that was said, using the token one that Joe Hockey just did and that is make a Chinese buyer in Sydney sell off his $39 million house he bought without abiding by the rules.

      The indication was that if it is shown they broke the rules they would have to divest themselves of the property.   Well when I see the many   houses in Boroondara  being sold off because they

      were bought outside the rules, then I will believe the government is serious.  What I would  prefer to see happening is the houses being confiscated by the government.

 

ARE THE FOREIGNERS PROVIDING MORE HOUSES?

      The Government use the housing shortage as the reason why they allow foreign purchase of houses and apartments.  Is this really happening?   Certainly in the suburbs it is not.   Certainly it keeps

       builders working as houses are bulldozed and new houses built as the rule has been they cannot buy new houses but only new ones.  So all that is happening is that houses are being replaced  not

      extra houses.  

 

HOUSES LEFT EMPTY

Ask residents in street after street in Boroondara and endless  new McMansions  are left empty, trees all gone and not much garden.

 

APARTMENTS IN THE CITY

      Certainly foreigners are buying apartments in the city and Southbank and Docklands but many are left empty, there are stories about them not paying their body corporate fees.

      So this is hardly adding to housing stock.

 

 

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This is from a residents' action group in Melbourne (BRAG):

This is the saddest piece of writing I have read in a long time.

Not because I don't want to allow foreigners to own homes in Australia, but because we seem to have allowed this whole shemozzle to progress almost "ad-hoc".

Here we are, the normal plebs believing that we have a regulator in place to govern foreign ownership, when the truth and the reality is, the regulator is asleep, and entirely impotent to act.

I have discovered this with all regulatory bodies.

And I think it is a fundamental flaw within our society and government, when they suggest that they will put a regulator in place to ensure compliance.

The flaw is this.

Human beings are naturally lazy.

We all like to do the least we can for the greatest return.

All the great idealists encounter this obstacle.

So why would a regulator (insert person) seriously want to create work for itself/themselves by pursuing those who usurp the system?

One, or two, here and there, is sufficient to ensure their survival. Why do anything more?

Imagine if they had actively pursued everyone, how much paperwork and legal argument that might entail. They would be overworked!!!

 

We saw it during the GFC.

It was the regulators that were the ones who turned a blind eye and failed to keep their hand on the plough which allowed the banks to go on their merry way.

We see it in all the regulators that are supposed to ensure compliance in so many areas of life.

Bah!

Cynical, cynical, cynical......

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This is from a residents' action group in Melbourne (BRAG):

 Totally agree. How is the supply increasing if the dwellings are not being rented?!! Also agree that confiscation or at least a hefty penalty (a substantial % of the sale price) should be imposed for breaking the rules. Again, I also agree that the government means business when all those < $1m dwellings that have been illegally purchased make regular news.

 

Also regarding the increase in supply of dwellings, how are locals (especially the young) supposed to compete with rich chinese (or any other foreigner) who have a much bigger wallet?!! It is hard enough competing with investors who get tax advantages, let alone foreigners who are further getting advantage of our depreciating currency.

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bah you're getting old solomon :)

Yeah. Every day tor; every day!

Getting too old for all the shenanigans!!    :wheelchair:

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Illegal foreign property buying 'inevitable', says FIRB

 

 

Regulators' ability to uncover and prosecute illegal residential property buying by foreigners is "sorely limited" and such sales are "inevitable", the Foreign Investment Review Board chairman has admitted.

Chairman Brian Wilson said a national register for property transactions was needed to help track buying by foreigners, who are barred from buying established residential property unless they are temporary residents, and in that case, must sell when they leave the country. 

"There are about 11 million residential dwellings in Australia, and about 600,000 property transfers every year. It is inevitable some of those properties will be exchanged contrary to the law, but our ability to first discover and then prosecute these cases is sorely limited," Mr Wilson said.

To make it easier to catch foreigners buying property illegally, the regulator has proposed the register as part of a package of changes, including civil and criminal penalties and hefty application fees, which Treasury is consulting on. 

"At the moment the FIRB and Treasury can only investigate the cases that come before us. What is needed is central depository of automated data to aid detection," Mr Wilson said at the Australian Securities and Investment Commission's annual conference.

It has been mooted that responsibility for managing the register be transferred to the Australian Taxation Office.

"The ATO is better set up for coordinating a big data approach than Treasury, which is a policy body," Mr Wilson said.

Mr Wilson said the register idea has "wide support" but will require the support of state and territory land titles offices.

Queensland is the only state that now asks buyers if they are foreign.

"This is not a straightforward process but I am confident this will get a place on the Council of Australian Governments agenda," Mr Wilson said.

The FIRB are also calling on lawmakers to institute a new range of civil penalties it could apply to a wider range of offenders.

Earlier this month, Federal Treasurer Joe Hockey announced the first forced divestment since 2007 when he ordered the sale of a $39 million Point Piper mansion that had been illegally purchased by China's 15th richest man.

At the time the Treasurer said he was putting foreign buyers "on notice" that there would be more crackdowns on illegal transactions.

But the low conviction rate to date might tempt some offshore buyers to roll the dice.

"At the moment we have the threat of forced divestment and criminal prosecution possibly resulting in jail time but the hurdle of proof for a criminal prosecution is very high, and this process takes a lot of time and money," Mr Wilson said.

No one has ever been jailed in Australia as the result of an illegal foreign property investment case.

"What we have proposed is a graduated scheme of civil penalties that would make enforcement easier," Mr Wilson said.

He wants more power for investors to be stripped of profits from illegal transactions without the obstacle of a criminal conviction needing to be met.

"Of course there would still be the threat of possible criminal convictions in extreme cases," Mr Wilson said.

The proposed introduction of an additional layer of penalties for breaches of the foreign investment rules has met with mixed results from the real estate industry.

"Some in the real estate industry have told us they don't want to see civil penalties introduced, while others have agreed there needs to be a tighter regime," Mr Wilson said.

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