tor

American S&S stuff

18 posts in this topic

I may have referred to this guy before. He used to write primarily about military tactics but has gone off on a practical survivalist type bent recently.

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2011/08/journal-where-should-i-put-my-money-before-things-collapse.html

Was an interesting read with some interesting links. More of a conversation starter than anything else but nice to see.

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It's always fun to think about what actual skills you possess that would be useful in the event of catastrophe. I have posed this question to a bunch of people. One answered that they would do the punishment/execution of law breakers whom we couldn't afford to support in a prison system. You could put your money into productive farm land but then you have to defend it. Probably a more efficient use of resources to buy weapons and just take the productive land like the old days. ^_^

I bags being in charge. I have administrative skills in abundance and can be diplomatic on occasion. You are going to need politicians and laws as well as ditch diggers. :) Oh I also have some knowledge of growing veg (I worked in a hydroponic bean sprout farm for a couple of years) and currently grow my own plus I can cook.

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There's a program I have been watching called "The boat that Guy built" about a guy (no pun intended) nominally restoring a narrow boat on the english canals using technology from the industrial revolution. I have only got round to watching a couple of episodes but it has things like how to smelt your own iron, how to throw your own pots, how to make a cup of tea etc. It's worth a look if you get a chance.

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Well I can lash lengths of timber together and knock up temporary structures but we would then need;

A few rope makers

A dozen or so hunters and skin tanners

A handfull of people who can stitch a seam between the skins

A Tree faller

and a few guys to saw the wood into timber. I know they call the one on top; top dog so this has to be an in demand job?

I would be up for it and I reckon I know others who would too. Spend a year or so learning to ride a horse shoot a bow I might also get a bit fitter than I am now too... Then when ready with a handfull of traditional tools like saws, axes and bows take a month off work and show just what modern people with no bush experience could do with a bit of forward planning and our natural resources?

It would have to be in tasmania I reckon, anywhere else would be too much like hard work. At least food is not an issue there. Probably eat more meat than I do at home now with all the deer, rabbits and little roos down there.

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Have you seen this talk?

A bit of whimsy, but highlights the need for a community to get the stuff we take for granted.

Engineers could be the new black.

Edited by Ugg

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Ugg,

I just see a big blank box.

Is this a representation of where we would be in a world without engineers or my computers settings? ;)

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Ugg,

I just see a big blank box.

Is this a representation of where we would be in a world without engineers or my computers settings? ;)

Depends, was it an engineer who set you computer's settings?

It appears OK on my computer.

You could Google "ted talks toaster thomas Thwaites"

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Depends, was it an engineer who set you computer's settings?

Don't go there...

Generally my store bought and set-up computer at home performs far more reliably then my work computer...

windows 7 is pretty good, you just turn it on brand new and after a few days of downloading stuff and asking you a handfull of questions even a civil engineer can answer you are left with a fully functioning machine!

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Have you seen this talk?

A bit of whimsy, but highlights the need for a community to get the stuff we take for granted.

Engineers could be the new black.

Good clip Ugg. It does highlight the disconnect between skills required in a low tech malthusian scenario. I was thinking that tradies would be required but even the skill they possess require technology and I'm not convinced pure joinery for example are skills that are taught by modern apprenticeships. I may be completely wrong on this and any tradies may wish to correct me. (A nail gun vs mortice and tenon joinery) Thankfully I myself possess yr 12 woodworking skills. Even some rudimentary metal work.

Fear not on the toast front however. I was thinking I could corner the market on jaffle irons in such a situation. Toasters wouldn't be required. Unless your commune had no iron foundry and they had to use a stick over an open flame.

We should compile list of other skills required for potential applicants:

Steel making (1600c)

Electricity making (Faraday wheels)

cotton mills (cloth making)

Baking

food preservation techniques

shoe making

sanitation (think josiah wedgewood/thos crapper)

We can relive the entire industrial revolution.

The reset button will have been hit and so opportunities will abound for the backward savvy. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cBp6gi_G2Y

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I was thinking when I watched the toaster video is just how different it would be if one was hypothetically transplanted in the 18th century v say 1000BC with nothing but your own wits and tribespeople.

Now I am thinking you would be lucky to get out of the stone age or even into it short of using a rock to club the odd passing lizard for breakfast if this is counted as the stone age? Even shaping a rock is quite likely a hard and quite skilled task and this is a requisite of even thinking about shaping timber (slowly no doubt!) and so without this skill you are pretty well stuck!

Many books have been written for the survival of an individual when put in nature with nothing. Never one for a collective group, and I am not sure it is necessarily the same. I believe the group could be more ambitious. Imagine if you could come up with a path to go from nothing using the surrounds to get yourself somewhere near the modern era. No doubt there are many stumbling blocks which would be difficult to overcome even if you were talking generations.

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...Never one for a collective group, and I am not sure it is necessarily the same...

I think one of the key elements is going to be the surplus food thing. Your group stands a better chance of providing enough food that one or two people might be able to spend time on technology. One person is going to have a hard time gathering enough food to spend much time on making anything.

Does mean you need a group that is happy to mostly spend their time getting food while one person doesn't. Can see a lot of friction there, most people are going to think they have the ideas and should be the one not gathering food :)

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Does mean you need a group that is happy to mostly spend their time getting food while one person doesn't. Can see a lot of friction there, most people are going to think they have the ideas and should be the one not gathering food :)

Yes but I think they would be simpler times. Rather than research which can be a bit fuzzy short term as to what is being achieved the investment in the future would yield concrete results when you are talking about a few building or making stuff for the rest of the tribe. Whether it be production of hunting tools or buildings there would be something concrete to show for the days efforts when the hunters returned.

With my efforts at fishing I reckon I would get into more trouble being a hunter gatherer, think I could show results around temporary structures assuming I had the timber to begin with (which is an assumption I guess I cannot make! Anyone for toad fish and trumpeter stew...

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I read a book not so long ago - Earth Abides by George R Stewart - classic sci fi where humanity is mostly wiped out by a virus. The story follows the survival (to old age) of a chap who was maybe an engineer/geologist. He becomes the leader of a largely peaceful community that eventually outlives him and outgrows a need for his 'old time knowledge'. I mention it here because a large part of the survivial was having access to the infrastructure, including food and water supply, of the departed civilisation. The transition to self-sufficiency occurred incrementally over tens of years. For example when the water stopped coming out of the taps, because of rust, they followed the pipes towards the dam until they found the leak. That then became the new water source. They used cars, until batteries and tyres were no longer available or unperished. What I am saying is you don't need to reinvent stuff tomorrow. You can scavage, adapt and learn. Ease into gently.

If I had to build a toaster I would go mine an abandoned house or a garbage dump. There is no need to refine metal from a rock when there is metal laying around ready to be rebent. This all assumes that the majority of folk have been taken from the planet. I think if the majority are still alive then the need for survilism is much shorter term, as people can't help but reorganise into communities.

I can teach, not poetry or rubbish, SCIENCE!

and swing an axe for Tom's timber

and bake bread - need some flour - but I think that can be had or improvised.

I am handy with ropes and bicycles

I can also pass as a medical doctor if you don't mind cool piratey scars.

Edited by Ugg

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I can teach, not poetry or rubbish, SCIENCE!

and swing an axe for Tom's timber

and bake bread - need some flour - but I think that can be had or improvised.

I am handy with ropes and bicycles

I can also pass as a medical doctor if you don't mind cool piratey scars.

Nice with those skills I would put my vote to you being leader!

Yes if you had all the existing infrastructure and materials I suspect for the few remaining quality of life may actually improve.

Limitless food, for decades lots of energy from fuel at petrol stations etc.

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Nice with those skills I would put my vote to you being leader!

Yes if you had all the existing infrastructure and materials I suspect for the few remaining quality of life may actually improve.

Limitless food, for decades lots of energy from fuel at petrol stations etc.

Thanks for the vote, but I think in times of trial it is safer not to be leader.

Edited by Ugg

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I read a book not so long ago - Earth Abides by George R Stewart - classic sci fi where humanity is mostly wiped out by a virus. The story follows the survival (to old age) of a chap who was maybe an engineer/geologist. He becomes the leader of a largely peaceful community that eventually outlives him and outgrows a need for his 'old time knowledge'. I mention it here because a large part of the survivial was having access to the infrastructure, including food and water supply, of the departed civilisation. The transition to self-sufficiency occurred incrementally over tens of years. For example when the water stopped coming out of the taps, because of rust, they followed the pipes towards the dam until they found the leak. That then became the new water source. They used cars, until batteries and tyres were no longer available or unperished. What I am saying is you don't need to reinvent stuff tomorrow. You can scavage, adapt and learn. Ease into gently.

If I had to build a toaster I would go mine an abandoned house or a garbage dump. There is no need to refine metal from a rock when there is metal laying around ready to be rebent. This all assumes that the majority of folk have been taken from the planet. I think if the majority are still alive then the need for survilism is much shorter term, as people can't help but reorganise into communities.

I can teach, not poetry or rubbish, SCIENCE!

and swing an axe for Tom's timber

and bake bread - need some flour - but I think that can be had or improvised.

I am handy with ropes and bicycles

I can also pass as a medical doctor if you don't mind cool piratey scars.

But the cities will be full of rats, death and disease. Besides, the malthusian scenario I envisage doesn't require a super virus or immediate depletion of numbers. It's more of a day of the triffids scenario where we get to witness the carnage rather than a low starting base. At some point those from the city will come looking to the country for food. They'll be armed so we will need to be as well. They will have scavenged and pillaged while we have been building a new society based on science, reason and good manners...

I already baggsed being leader earlier in the thread. (This ain't no democracy tom) :vampire::D I too can teach science, ugg the wise. And poetry and rubbish. It's really only thanks to your ability to impart cool piraty scars that you're in the collective! I have one particular request and that is the continued use of the trepan. I would immensely enjoy a krugerrand implanted in my head before the end.

Edited by staringclown

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But the cities will be full of rats, death and disease. Besides, the malthusian scenario I envisage doesn't require a super virus or immediate depletion of numbers. It's more of a day of the triffids scenario where we get to witness the carnage rather than a low starting base. At some point those from the city will come looking to the country for food. They'll be armed so we will need to be as well. They will have scavenged and pillaged while we have been building a new society based on science, reason and good manners...

I think, regarding rats, that their co-evolution will mean that their population will also take a hit, in the longterm. In the short-term they may help clear up all the extra bodies lying in the streets.

I already baggsed being leader earlier in the thread. (This ain't no democracy tom) :vampire::D I too can teach science, ugg the wise. And poetry and rubbish. It's really only thanks to your ability to impart cool piraty scars that you're in the collective! I have one particular request and that is the continued use of the trepan. I would immensely enjoy a krugerrand implanted in my head before the end.

Do you want to be the head of the bank too or just have a head like a bank?

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