zaph

Zaph's real estate adventures

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i just went to an auction in the next street.

at previous auctions the auctioneer is very clear when he is making a vendor bid. at this one the auctioneer (who sounded more like a race caller) did not make it clear at all. what are others experiences?

there was clearly only one bidder who opened at 480 and bid against the vendor to get to 560 where it stopped. the auctioneer went to the vendor and then the bidder was ushered inside. a while later they all appeared, the bidder said he was biding 590, the auctioneer said reserve had been met, the house was on the market - and of course no one bid any more. sold for 590.

would you bid against yourself? crazy!

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i just went to an auction in the next street.

at previous auctions the auctioneer is very clear when he is making a vendor bid. at this one the auctioneer (who sounded more like a race caller) did not make it clear at all. what are others experiences?

there was clearly only one bidder who opened at 480 and bid against the vendor to get to 560 where it stopped. the auctioneer went to the vendor and then the bidder was ushered inside. a while later they all appeared, the bidder said he was biding 590, the auctioneer said reserve had been met, the house was on the market - and of course no one bid any more. sold for 590.

would you bid against yourself? crazy!

You know what they say about fools and their money ...

Clearly what *should* have happened is the bidder should have stopped at 480 and, on being ushered inside, he should have told the vendor and auctioneer something along the lines of:

"You want me to bid against myself? Do you see any other bidders out there? I am the only serious bidder, god-darn-it!

AND you want to tell me that even if I raise my own bid against myself, it is still possible for someone else to overbid me?

Are you NUTS???

Either you accept my offer and sell the house to me or pass the auction in and I wish you good luck selling this house to someone else."

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Clearly what *should* have happened is the bidder should have stopped at 480 and, on being ushered inside

the bidder only started at 480 on the suggestion of the auctioneer. he was bright red and looked like he was going to blow a fuse throughout the auction. he didn't look at the auctioneer or the crowd, but just kept looking at the clipboard he brought with him. waving his hand at any thought he might be outbid by himself.

"You want me to bid against myself? Do you see any other bidders out there? I am the only serious bidder, god-darn-it!

he wasn't that sort of guy. his head would have been spinning and he wouldn't have had a clue who else was bidding.

AND you want to tell me that even if I raise my own bid against myself, it is still possible for someone else to overbid me?

the 85yr old woman from across the road thought it was worth 650k, at least, because it had good breezes. she could have taken a ring off to pay the deposit.

given the female companions disinterest i'd say it was an investment.

zaph's rental appraisal - 500pw

zaph's sales appraisal - 475k

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Maybe they offered him a car or other such object of similar value that he bid it up by.

Then the recorded sale could still be at the top price, but he only paid x dollars.

what?

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Back in 2008, last time I was at all interested in buying a house in this country, I went to an auction where the bidding stopped at what I assume was below reserve.

The vendor and family were crying and the young auctioneer called it 3 x and said final bid (around 420 from memory) to a young couple with a newborn. An older REA (why there were 3 of them hanging around was beyond me) told the young fella not so fast and took the vendor and high bidders inside. When they came out, the REA announced that the high bidder was prepared to pay 450 for the place and they were getting the barbie (cheap looking) for free. Some old guy in the crowd called out that the bbq was worth a couple of hundred at Bunnings, not 30k. I walked off in disgust.

Sometimes I wonder how that young couple is going with their mortgage. I didn't mind the house, it was a 4x2 on a full 1/4 acre and seemed well looked after. ummesters valuation was 350-380, which wasn't too far below where the bidding stopped.

I have no idea why REAs can get away with privately raising the sale amount after bidding has stopped but agree with firehawk that ultimately the bidder is a clown to accept paying more if they know no-one else wants it.

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just got back from an auction near my parents place.

auction didn't go ahead. not a single registered bidder. nice four bedroom house with a good granny flat. only 5 groups of lookers, 3 were neighbours.

this place last sold in 9/2009 for 600k to an investor. there were maybe 20-30 groups last time with around 5 bidders. painted and carpeted since last sale. last rented for 450 + 250pw.

i will be interested to see if it sells and what for?

why did the investor only hold it for less than two years?

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just got back from an auction near my parents place.

auction didn't go ahead. not a single registered bidder. nice four bedroom house with a good granny flat. only 5 groups of lookers, 3 were neighbours.

this place last sold in 9/2009 for 600k to an investor. there were maybe 20-30 groups last time with around 5 bidders. painted and carpeted since last sale. last rented for 450 + 250pw.

i will be interested to see if it sells and what for?

why did the investor only hold it for less than two years?

The yield would be better with the rent from the granny flat included. Not many people want to live with strangers in the granny flat and $700 bucks per week is expensive for an extended family. The capital gain since 2009 wouldn't be helping much either is my guess.

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The yield would be better with the rent from the granny flat included. Not many people want to live with strangers in the granny flat and $700 bucks per week is expensive for an extended family. The capital gain since 2009 wouldn't be helping much either is my guess.

you're a clown. ray white told me property goes up at least 7% a year, if not ten. this place is therefore worth 685k at a minimum and up to 726k.

the GF is very separate. shares a common wall with the house, but a separate entrance and car space, on a corner block. the pool is shared however. very separate apart from the odd naked pool adventure. unit like.

i think the current owners went 700pw x 52 = 36400pa rent. they didn't account for GF status. there were many weeks of main house vacant. the main house would probably rent for 480pw, i don't think they accounted for lower demand due to the shared nature. i think they also under-priced the GF.

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you're a clown.

Why thank you. :)

the GF is very separate. shares a common wall with the house, but a separate entrance and car space, on a corner block. the pool is shared however. very separate apart from the odd naked pool adventure. unit like.

i think the current owners went 700pw x 52 = 36400pa rent. they didn't account for GF status. there were many weeks of main house vacant. the main house would probably rent for 480pw, i don't think they accounted for lower demand due to the shared nature. i think they also under-priced the GF.

Odd, naked, pool adventurers is what worries me.

Gruen Transfer 2.29 into the clip

I wonder if the property can be let separately when it's not separate titles?

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I wonder if the property can be let separately when it's not separate titles?

strictly to the letter of the law, no. but there's no shortage of agents that advertise GFs in the area, so the council mustn't be too worried or the law's a bit ambiguous. with it's own entrance the GF would also make a great office for someone working from home.

now listed at 649k. which would be ~ break even (ignoring holding costs, they're not an expense but a tax deduction, everyone knows that!). 600k purchase price + 20k SD + 16k agent selling fees + 14k carpet and paint.

i give it 4 weeks and it'll be up for rent again.

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Why thank you. :)

Odd, naked, pool adventurers is what worries me.

Gruen Transfer 2.29 into the clip

I wonder if the property can be let separately when it's not separate titles?

Yes, you can let a house by the room as long as there are fewer than 6 unrelated people in the home. That is how you let a downstairs flat or something separately.

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Yes, you can let a house by the room as long as there are fewer than 6 unrelated people in the home. That is how you let a downstairs flat or something separately.

hi cameron. nice to see you drop by.

my flimsy bit of evidence is......

Can you rent out a Secondary Dwelling (granny flat) under a house?

No. Acceptable Solution A8 in the House Code states that a House must be used by a single household group. Renting out a Secondary Dwelling or "granny flat" would be contrary to the Acceptable Solution as the house is used by one group and the Secondary Dwelling by an autonomous group.

Non-compliance with the acceptable solutions triggers a notifiable code application.

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/planning-building/common-building-projects/residential-projects/house-new/houses-faq/index.htm

this is brisbane city council.

i'd appreciate further comment as i'm thinking of renting granny out.

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hi cameron. nice to see you drop by.

my flimsy bit of evidence is......

http://www.brisbane....s-faq/index.htm

this is brisbane city council.

i'd appreciate further comment as i'm thinking of renting granny out.

What do “domestic residential purposes” and “household group” in P8/A8 of the House Code mean?

These are the key phrases that define a building as a House and are related to the phrase “domestic group” in City Plan’s definition of a House. These phrases indicate that the group occupying the house arrange their affairs in a domestic way. For example, rent or mortgage, bills or other household expenses are collectively shared by co-tenants in equal or relative proportions with no one party profiting from another. In a rental situation, either one or all the occupant’s names may be on the lease. A sub-tenancy agreement between a lessee and another party not shown on the lease is usually considered a domestic arrangement. You may be asked to provide this evidence if compliance with the Code is in doubt.

A non-domestic arrangement is one where an owner or agent has individual contracts with each tenant, giving them a right to occupy separate parts of the building and profits from the taking of rent. These are considered as individual discrete households and not one household group acting collectively. Depending on length and type of stay, this is likely to be considered as a Multi-unit Dwelling or Short Term Accommodation for the purposes of City Plan.

Note that a household can be spread between the main house and a secondary dwelling as long as all parties form a single domestic group.

there must be a way round this as plenty of agents (not just the dodgy Chinese ones) advertise GFs???

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at this one the auctioneer (who sounded more like a race caller) did not make it clear at all.

I've never bought at a real live auction (eBay doesn't count does it?) but I should imagine that if I were buying a house at the first indication that I was losing control of the situation or felt pressured / conned I'd bail. Call me crazy but making a mistake when you are dealing with hundreds of thousands of (more than likely borrowed) dollars doesn't sound like a learning curve most could recover from. So what am I saying? I guess I'm saying that if the auctioneer was talking to fast for me to follow I wouldn't be comfortable bidding.

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I've never bought at a real live auction (eBay doesn't count does it?) but I should imagine that if I were buying a house at the first indication that I was losing control of the situation or felt pressured / conned I'd bail. Call me crazy but making a mistake when you are dealing with hundreds of thousands of (more than likely borrowed) dollars doesn't sound like a learning curve most could recover from. So what am I saying? I guess I'm saying that if the auctioneer was talking to fast for me to follow I wouldn't be comfortable bidding.

You should go to a coin auction like Downies. It's a little bizarre the first time but you get the hang of it. pretty quickly.

I think if you're seriously considering buying a house you should visit enough auctions to be relatively comfortable with the process. If you're not comfortable then you should hire someone to bid for you.

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Even if I live to the age of 500 I will never understand the sense of bidding in an auction where the vendor can bid.

You know those kinda things that future generations will look back on one day and say what? They did what? Huh?

3 million people watched complete strangers renovating a house? How bored were people back then?

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strictly to the letter of the law, no. but there's no shortage of agents that advertise GFs in the area, so the council mustn't be too worried or the law's a bit ambiguous. with it's own entrance the GF would also make a great office for someone working from home.

now listed at 649k. which would be ~ break even (ignoring holding costs, they're not an expense but a tax deduction, everyone knows that!). 600k purchase price + 20k SD + 16k agent selling fees + 14k carpet and paint.

i give it 4 weeks and it'll be up for rent again.

i was wrong. less than two weeks.

visited the folks today and the for sale sign is till there but next to it a for rent sign with a 'leased' sticker over it. the sale listing is still on the net at still 649k. refind tells me it was advertised for just 6 days at 680pw granny flat included.

who would rent a place that is for sale?

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i was wrong. less than two weeks.

visited the folks today and the for sale sign is till there but next to it a for rent sign with a 'leased' sticker over it. the sale listing is still on the net at still 649k. refind tells me it was advertised for just 6 days at 680pw granny flat included.

who would rent a place that is for sale?

well assuming that they have a fixed term lease, it shouldn't matter too much. they can't get booted till the lease expires. the question is who would buy a house that has just been leased? i guess tehy are only targeting investors but it seems unwise to further delimit the range of potential buyers when you are already having trouble offloading the property...

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well assuming that they have a fixed term lease, it shouldn't matter too much. they can't get booted till the lease expires. the question is who would buy a house that has just been leased? i guess tehy are only targeting investors but it seems unwise to further delimit the range of potential buyers when you are already having trouble offloading the property...

i certainly wouldn't rent a house that was on the market. who wants the hassle of constant inspections (although given the interest in this property 'constant' might be an exaggeration). there's no shortage of rental properties in the area. i guess if you really wanted a granny flat then it might be worth it, that said if you really needed a GF you would want somewhere stable with a long lease. i'd rent a normal house and put up with grandma's funny smell while i look for something long term and then break the lease on the normal place.

i guess so, but as you say is it wise to cut out 2/3 (OOs) of your customers? but if the vendors left it empty they would be bleeding 900+pw and not even be able to claim it as a tax deduction.

edit - my next prediction. reduction in asking price of some pissy amount in a months time. bank sale in 6 months.

Edited by zaph

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i cant get over the not having " highest bidder gets the house " rules,. i mean really WTF are auctions for but to sell crap really quickly.

tho whole idea of auctions where there are reserves or vendors / RE agents bidding you up is insane. and ive never comprehended it.

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i cant get over the not having " highest bidder gets the house " rules,. i mean really WTF are auctions for but to sell crap really quickly.

tho whole idea of auctions where there are reserves or vendors / RE agents bidding you up is insane. and ive never comprehended it.

the highest bidder maybe way too low for a variety of reasons. by your rules I'd hire a few thugs to block the streets around the auction, bid one dollar and win.

a better system would be no bids bellow the reserve. start the bidding at the reserve!

i suspect vendor bidding was introduced to stop 'dummy' bidding but kind of still allow it. weird hey.

auctions are not designed to sell the crap quickly, they are designed to advertise the selling agent.

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the highest bidder maybe way too low for a variety of reasons. by your rules I'd hire a few thugs to block the streets around the auction, bid one dollar and win.

You stole that from an episode of Bonanza ph34r.gif

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i was wrong. less than two weeks.

visited the folks today and the for sale sign is till there but next to it a for rent sign with a 'leased' sticker over it. the sale listing is still on the net at still 649k. refind tells me it was advertised for just 6 days at 680pw granny flat included.

who would rent a place that is for sale?

now listed at 599k - what they paid for it.

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