Ruffian

Going solar

77 posts in this topic

The system is Capable of putting out 3KW per hour which so far has averaged somewhere in the region of 11 KWh per day. Whereas my usage is only 8.3KWh per day.

Dang! We are a childless couple, hardly ever home due to work, do not own any air conditioners, run one 300L fridge, a 5L top load washing machine twice per week and an 80L Hot Water Cylinder which is housed indoors in the laundry (less heat loss), an electric stove/oven, and our electricity bill says that we use 10KWh per day on average!

Do you have gas for cooking and hot water? And what do you use for light, candles?

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Dang! We are a childless couple, hardly ever home due to work, do not own any air conditioners, run one 300L fridge, a 5L top load washing machine twice per week and an 80L Hot Water Cylinder which is housed indoors in the laundry (less heat loss), an electric stove/oven, and our electricity bill says that we use 10KWh per day on average!

Do you have gas for cooking and hot water? And what do you use for light, candles?

I dunno what we do that's so different, as friends of ours had a similar power bill to us prior to going solar (about $320-340 per quarter)

There are only the missus and myself, we have all the usual stuff, 240L Off Peak hot water service, fridge, electric stove, twin tub machine, nearly all fluorescent lighting. We are careful about switching off unused lighting and use the microwave wherever possible for heating and cooking food. We eat well,.. (too well) and don't feel that we are missing out on any comforts.

I'd say that the figure shown on the bill (6.34KWh) is what we import, not taking into account what we export.

Here's the remainder of our last Bill. I removed it from the earlier post as i had neglected to remove all my personal details and when i went back to replace it I couldn't do it.

73ba5425.jpg

Edited by Popeye

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Your bill says that last year your average daily usage is 14.58KWh, that would be more representative of the amount of electricity you actually use. Your big Hot Water Cylinder and likely an older and larger fridge would be the biggest contributors to that figure (also if you were using air conditioning some of the time).

I'd say that the figure shown on the bill (6.34KWh) is what we import, not taking into account what we export.

I'd agree; you now use 6.34 KWh of grid power per day (probably at night) and feed in more than that during the day which results in a credit. However, you're getting a fairly large credit, so this would mean that your solar panels are producing far more than 14KWh of power per day.

To achieve the kind of credit you are getting, I would have thought that your 3KW system averaging around very close to 3KW per hour for 7 hours of each day, which is likely not to be the case as your solar system would be far less efficient in mornings and afternoons and closest to peak efficiency only around the midday hours.

I must be missing something in my analysis but not sure what I am not seeing.

Edit: Is it possible that the Average Cost Per Day on your electricity bill represents the cost of the 14KWh and not the actual credit you are getting? Similarly, our average cost per day is $2.xx and that is for 10KWh.

Edited by tux

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---snip---

I must be missing something in my analysis but not sure what I am not seeing.

Edit: Is it possible that the Average Cost Per Day on your electricity bill represents the cost of the 14KWh and not the actual credit you are getting? Similarly, our average cost per day is $2.xx and that is for 10KWh.

The Hot water constituent of my bill is down as you say due to me fitting a new tank with better insulation.

I attempted to work out how my bill was calculated by recording the figures on my meter and Inverter output into a simple spreadsheet, but with multiple billing rates at different times of the day and different seasonal rates plus all manner of concessions and other things I couldn't get within a bull's roar of the figures I found on my quarterly bill. The only saving grace being that I got back far in excess (nearly double) of my own calculation, so I just gave up and took the money and ran with it.

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Your bill says that last year your average daily usage is 14.58KWh, that would be more representative of the amount of electricity you actually use. Your big Hot Water Cylinder and likely an older and larger fridge would be the biggest contributors to that figure (also if you were using air conditioning some of the time).

I'd agree; you now use 6.34 KWh of grid power per day (probably at night) and feed in more than that during the day which results in a credit. However, you're getting a fairly large credit, so this would mean that your solar panels are producing far more than 14KWh of power per day.

To achieve the kind of credit you are getting, I would have thought that your 3KW system averaging around very close to 3KW per hour for 7 hours of each day, which is likely not to be the case as your solar system would be far less efficient in mornings and afternoons and closest to peak efficiency only around the midday hours.

I must be missing something in my analysis but not sure what I am not seeing.

Edit: Is it possible that the Average Cost Per Day on your electricity bill represents the cost of the 14KWh and not the actual credit you are getting? Similarly, our average cost per day is $2.xx and that is for 10KWh.

could it be that the sell price is greater than the buy price?

when i investigated getting solar in qld i would have sold power at 45c and purchased at 25c (don't quote me on the figures but it was something like that). Therefore i could have been a net importer of kwh but still paid no bill or got a refund, especially since i would generate power during the day while i was at work, using little power and buy it at night when i used most power.

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could it be that the sell price is greater than the buy price?

when i investigated getting solar in qld i would have sold power at 45c and purchased at 25c (don't quote me on the figures but it was something like that). Therefore i could have been a net importer of kwh but still paid no bill or got a refund, especially since i would generate power during the day while i was at work, using little power and buy it at night when i used most power.

I receive 52c per KWh for my power generated, but as far as I know, that only applies to the excess over and above my consumption that I "push back up the pipe," rather than all of my power generated.

Maybe you are correct, as that would make my figures look more like what i see on my Bill???

Edited by Popeye

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could it be that the sell price is greater than the buy price?

when i investigated getting solar in qld i would have sold power at 45c and purchased at 25c (don't quote me on the figures but it was something like that). Therefore i could have been a net importer of kwh but still paid no bill or got a refund, especially since i would generate power during the day while i was at work, using little power and buy it at night when i used most power.

I have a question/potential rort scheme on the solar power incentives...

Once you have your solar panels installed and set up to feed power back to the grid, is there anything (apart from a sense of moral obligation to society) that prevents you feeding non-solar power into the system & getting paid for it at the 52c rate?

E.g. Hooking up a diesel generator to the AC output in the evening or perhaps a couple of high power computer PSUs@12v (or, in the future, your plug-in-electric car with battery storage) on the DC side to increase the amount of power you get paid for?

I have no background in electrical engineering or understanding of regulations around the government solar scheme, so perhaps there are some obvious technical/regulatory answers to the question, but perhaps it's workable?

Would love to be enlightened...

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I have a question/potential rort scheme on the solar power incentives...

Once you have your solar panels installed and set up to feed power back to the grid, is there anything (apart from a sense of moral obligation to society) that prevents you feeding non-solar power into the system & getting paid for it at the 52c rate?

E.g. Hooking up a diesel generator to the AC output in the evening or perhaps a couple of high power computer PSUs@12v (or, in the future, your plug-in-electric car with battery storage) on the DC side to increase the amount of power you get paid for?

I have no background in electrical engineering or understanding of regulations around the government solar scheme, so perhaps there are some obvious technical/regulatory answers to the question, but perhaps it's workable?

Would love to be enlightened...

or agree with neighbor to use his 24c power supply, and feed it directly into the 50c meter, making 25c / kw, for a little wiring. this avoiding all that tedious, generating power malarkey

Edited by savagegoose

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or agree with neighbor to use his 24c power supply, and feed it directly into the 50c meter, making 25c / kw, for a little wiring. this avoiding all that tedious, generating power malarkey

Yeah, that's what I was ultimately getting at :)

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I have a question/potential rort scheme on the solar power incentives...

Check the application forms to see if it is built into the agreement, but...

My 2c is that it is obtaining financial advantage by deception which is a crime (see Crimes Act 1958 VIC as an example).

http://www.austlii.e...195882/s82.html

I could be wrong though...

Edited by Mr Medved

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Check the application forms to see if it is built into the agreement, but...

My 2c is that it is obtaining financial advantage by deception which is a crime (see Crimes Act 1958 VIC as an example).

http://www.austlii.e...195882/s82.html

I could be wrong though...

I wonder whether it would be fraud or mere breach of contract... In any case, in VIC it seems the feed in tariff is something like 25c/KWh, so you wouldn't turn a profit.

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Yesterday we received our Power Bill, twelve months after having had our solar system installed.

AGL4_zps7ad764e7.jpg

Not only have we had free power for the last 12 months, our excess has paid the supply charges and given us a $703.90 credit.

This equates to a 17% return on our investment.

Now I have to contact our supplier (AGL) and ask how we go about having the excess transferred into our Bank account as even though it's hardly a princely sum, I'd rather it earn interest for me than them.:thumbsup:

Edited by Popeye

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Yesterday we received our Power Bill, twelve months after having had our solar system installed.

AGL4_zps7ad764e7.jpg

Not only have we had free power for the last 12 months, our excess has paid the supply charges and given us a $703.90 credit.

This equates to a 17% return on our investment.

Now I have to contact our supplier (AGL) and ask how we go about having the excess transferred into our Bank account as even though it's hardly a princely sum, I'd rather it earn interest for me than them.:thumbsup:

Queenslanders have only just cottoned onto the real cost of the Qld Labor / Greens Solar scheme (and scheme is the right word). 1 in 5 Queenslanders have solar panels and contracts, 4 in 5 have neither. The electricity company is still making money. Guess who is going to foot the bill? Firstly to subsidise the installation, then pay for the upgrades to the network because the network wasn't designed for this, then lastly they're having to pay extra to pay for the overly generous feed in tariffs to those with panels and cutting usage isn't going to cut it as a strategy because they're putting up the connection fee by a significant margin.

Tonight on the news Julia Gillard's solution to the problem is going to be to install the much hated smart meters. She must think that QLD'ers are really stupid because when we had a drought we were asked to decrease our water usage which we did only to have the price of water increase to make up the shortfall in revenue. Electricity won't be any different.

Don't get me wrong. If I had the opportunity I'd have taken the proverbial.

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Personally, as far as politicians are concerned, I'd gladly line them up one behind the other and "gut shoot" the lot of them.

Farmers get subsidies, developers get cheap land, first home owners get subsidies and cheap loans,... and this time I laid out a lot of money (for me) and so far, it looks like it might pay off, so forgive me but I'm gunna hang onto it with both hands.

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Personally, as far as politicians are concerned, I'd gladly line them up one behind the other and "gut shoot" the lot of them.

Farmers get subsidies, developers get cheap land, first home owners get subsidies and cheap loans,... and this time I laid out a lot of money (for me) and so far, it looks like it might pay off, so forgive me but I'm gunna hang onto it with both hands.

I'm not bitter.

What I'm most angry about is the missed opportunity for Australia. We could have had solar panels on roofs all around Australia lightening the load.

Hell, it's not rocket science.

Energy efficient houses + solar panels + wind turbines + traditional power plants + energy efficient appliances + access to reliable mass transit + water tanks + enough yard for a "victory" garden @ a fair price. Instead we have crap at top dollar that has the seeds of economic ruin sometime in the future sewn into them.

Future generations are going to look back at this period of time and shake their heads is dismay. Maybe they'll curse us like the Boomers seem to get now and then only the vitriol in the future will be far harsher if Chris Marstenson of Crash Course et al are correct.

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Yesterday we received our Power Bill, twelve months after having had our solar system installed.

AGL4_zps7ad764e7.jpg

Not only have we had free power for the last 12 months, our excess has paid the supply charges and given us a $703.90 credit.

This equates to a 17% return on our investment.

Now I have to contact our supplier (AGL) and ask how we go about having the excess transferred into our Bank account as even though it's hardly a princely sum, I'd rather it earn interest for me than them.:thumbsup:

Well played that man. The rest of the country is running around whining about power bills doubling. My hat is off to you.

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I'm not bitter.

What I'm most angry about is the missed opportunity for Australia. We could have had solar panels on roofs all around Australia lightening the load.

Hell, it's not rocket science.

Energy efficient houses + solar panels + wind turbines + traditional power plants + energy efficient appliances + access to reliable mass transit + water tanks + enough yard for a "victory" garden @ a fair price. Instead we have crap at top dollar that has the seeds of economic ruin sometime in the future sewn into them.

Future generations are going to look back at this period of time and shake their heads is dismay. Maybe they'll curse us like the Boomers seem to get now and then only the vitriol in the future will be far harsher if Chris Marstenson of Crash Course et al are correct.

Yes, I agree 100% I dunno what is wrong with our Pollies,.... or some of the taxpayers. Maybe I'm an idiot, but to me it seemed like a no-brainer, we all know that our system is overloaded at peak times, and the utility companies are now all owned by private enterprise who don't want to spend the shareholders money to up grade their now failing infrastructure. By me installing a solar system I am both reducing my own daylight load and a source of some locally generated power for others.

Our town has a very high proportion of solar installations, and I can't honestly say if that is the reason, but, since this all occurred we have not had a single power outage due to overload. I am also a great believer in wind power and have declared that fact on our local website, to the great dismay of some. Here:

Edited by Popeye

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we all know that our system is overloaded at peak times, and the utility companies are now all owned by private enterprise who don't want to spend the shareholders money to up grade their now failing infrastructure.

The utility distributors are loving spending money on the network. Have a look at the gold-plating investigations that are currently ongoing.

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The utility distributors are loving spending money on the network. Have a look at the gold-plating investigations that are currently ongoing.

Yes, I've been watching the news where the regulatory body has confirmed that most of the recent price rises are nothing more than price gouging.

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I spoke with a guy recently who told me that (a few years ago) distributers were onselling electricity in Victoria with a 125% mark-up (8c > 18c). They have monopoly powers where they operate... no competition whatsoever.

I'd love to "go solar" but I can't afford the ponzi-inflated house prices.

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I spoke with a guy recently who told me that (a few years ago) distributers were onselling electricity in Victoria with a 125% mark-up (8c > 18c). They have monopoly powers where they operate... no competition whatsoever.

I'd love to "go solar" but I can't afford the ponzi-inflated house prices.

If you can, move to the country, the lifestyle is to die for.

It seems to me that this is the price we have to pay for living in the cities and large centres, especially those who want to live in a "show home" or posh suburb. The price differential is making it such that it's impossible to buy in the city unless you've lived there for many years and had a "good" job. we paid $3500 for a 14 square stone cottage, that today would have had an HIA order placed on it. Over the years we added new wet areas, filled in an old underground tank and opened up the old kitchen over that area making it into a Kitchen dining area. I've done almost nothing to the outside as it appears every time you make visible improvements they jack up the value of your house and land for rate purposes.

It's still not large, and if it lacks only one thing it would be storage space, although this has been overcome since the kids left home. It's very comfortable, we have almost free heat in the colder months, and evaporative air conditioning that works really well in our dry climate.

You can live cheaply and very comfortably in the country. It is possibly the one major benefit of rural living.

Edited by Popeye

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I spoke with a guy recently who told me that (a few years ago) distributers were onselling electricity in Victoria with a 125% mark-up (8c > 18c). They have monopoly powers where they operate... no competition whatsoever.

I'd love to "go solar" but I can't afford the ponzi-inflated house prices.

Generators sell the electricity to retailers. The distributors send bills for the cost of transmission and distribution only to the retailers.

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Talking to a person who knows all these things the other day and he told me that power is sold by the generators, to the major distributors at $38 - $1200 a megawatt/hr, depending on supply and demand. He also told me that "fiddling" with the market (artificially driving up prices) by scheduling downtime of power plants. or having convenient breakdowns, is not unknown. In fact, if I caught his drift correctly, I'd say that he was implying that it is pretty much standard practice.

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For those still wondering how you actually get your hands on the Credit you have.

The process is quick and simple once you ring your local supplier, (13 1245 for those of us with AGL in the Port Augusta area) and then get past the computer generated questions.

You will need your Account number as provided by your supplier, which is found on your Bill, and if you chose to have the credit transferred into your bank account, your BSB and Account numbers, otherwise the only alternative is to have a cheque sent to you in the mail, but not having used this alternative I'm not sure of what that entails other than the obvious Name and Cheque account details.

The credit will be transferred within a few business days.

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