wulfgar

Broadband looms as election pawn

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yeah 40 years to be connected

IIRC fibre cable has a life span of 30 years... so it'll need to be replaced before you get it...

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IIRC fibre cable has a life span of 30 years... so it'll need to be replaced before you get it...

Surely replacing it before you get it isn't possible. :P

AFAIK the life span of fibre is anywhere between 40 and 100 years.

Armidale might be live, but for how long? Will the fibre need replacing in 20 to 25 years?

No, is the short answer. Despite NBN detractors claiming that fibre lasts only a couple of decades, people building networks are working on 40 years as a minimum, and some are expecting it to last 100.

The NBN co cost estimates work on a 40 year lifespan. Manufacturers claim a lifespan of 60 years with no degradation of the signal with age.

10. Fibre optics only last a maximum of 15 or 20 Years.

False

Manufacturers now quote an average lifetime of 60 years for fibre-optic cables,[19] which is about 10 years more than the typical underground copper cabling we have now. Fibre-optics are also unaffected by water penetration, unlike copper cables. Maintenance costs are much lower for fibre than copper.[20]

Nortel Networks report that they are running over 100Gbps over 15-year-old fibre networks without a problem, saying “The age of the fibre has nothing to do with it any more, thanks to the dispersion compensation techniques we use.”[21]

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Simulated maximum speed comparisons between fibre and copper.

Scroll down for comparative download speeds

Those puppy videos are the key to the economy.

But then I'm a geek so I like fast internet.

It would be interesting to see a similar "feral handout comparison calculator" webpage.

Edited by Turkey

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Those puppy videos are the key to the economy.

But then I'm a geek so I like fast internet.

It would be interesting to see a similar "feral handout comparison calculator" webpage.

The thing is I don't like either party particularly T. (Although admittedly I dislike Abbott as a leader considerably more than Gillard) The decision for which party I vote for is less about the personalities and more about which party delivers policies which I think will not only benefit me and mine but also the country. Please refer to my manifesto on the taxing times thread. :) If the libs came out tomorrow and said they would back the FTTP NBN model and a market based solution to deal with AGW then the decision who to vote for would be easy. It wasn't meant to be an indication of support for Labor. Only support for one of their policies.

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The thing is I don't like either party particularly T. (Although admittedly I dislike Abbott as a leader considerably more than Gillard) The decision for which party I vote for is less about the personalities and more about which party delivers policies which I think will not only benefit me and mine but also the country. Please refer to my manifesto on the taxing times thread. :)/> If the libs came out tomorrow and said they would back the FTTP NBN model and a market based solution to deal with AGW then the decision who to vote for would be easy. It wasn't meant to be an indication of support for Labor. Only support for one of their policies.

What we will never know is what option c would have produced in terms of internet speeds, cost and availability date.

Option c being govt not interfering in the telco market except for ensuring competition, and allowing the telcos to compete and determine the best delivery method to clients in every area (and let them bear the costs and manage sub-contractors thereby giving them an incentive to do so!).

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As for the choice between Tony and Julia ... I vomited a bit of dinner back up thinking about it.

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Simulated maximum speed comparisons between fibre and copper.

Scroll down for comparative download speeds

2GB/hr upload on xDSL? Hard to believe.

Option c being govt not interfering in the telco market except for ensuring competition, and allowing the telcos to compete and determine the best delivery method to clients in every area (and let them bear the costs and manage sub-contractors thereby giving them an incentive to do so!).

Haven't we tried that already and proven that the idea is nice but the implementation just means the lawyers from MSJ get bonuses?

To be honest given a choice between planning a nation wide optic fibre project and coming up with a plan which would allow fair competition between telcos I know which one I would choose as the easy option.

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Haven't we tried that already and proven that the idea is nice but the implementation just means the lawyers from MSJ get bonuses?

To be honest given a choice between planning a nation wide optic fibre project and coming up with a plan which would allow fair competition between telcos I know which one I would choose as the easy option.

I dunno, I got my 120 MB download and 2.5 upload without the NBN.

I know FTTH is cool and all but I wonder:

--What percentage of the population can really utilise that speed, especially the upload. If you need that upload speed then my guess is that you are doing something better suited to a data centre than the home. I rarely get close to my using up my download bandwidth because there is some other bottleneck e.g. the website, international pipes, whatever.

--What % of the population work from home (ok, some more can maybe work from home due to the NBN). Otherwise it's after hours pet videos, HD tv streaming and pr0n. Maybe it makes life more fun/convenient and therefore worthwhile, shrug.

--Will the economic benefit be worth the eventual cost. It's very nice but so is rail to extra suburbs etc. I guess it's about choices and Labor made one.

I managed to cope supporting remote (international) SQL Servers using 3.5 MB/s down, 512k up ADSL2+, so I wonder how many special cases there are out there that will make the investment worthwhile. But I guess I prefer it to handouts like "Ruddbucks" if that is the alternative...

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I dunno, I got my 120 MB download and 2.5 upload without the NBN.

I know FTTH is cool and all but I wonder:

--What percentage of the population can really utilise that speed, especially the upload. If you need that upload speed then my guess is that you are doing something better suited to a data centre than the home. I rarely get close to my using up my download bandwidth because there is some other bottleneck e.g. the website, international pipes, whatever.

--What % of the population work from home (ok, some more can maybe work from home due to the NBN). Otherwise it's after hours pet videos, HD tv streaming and pr0n. Maybe it makes life more fun/convenient and therefore worthwhile, shrug.

--Will the economic benefit be worth the eventual cost. It's very nice but so is rail to extra suburbs etc. I guess it's about choices and Labor made one.

I managed to cope supporting remote (international) SQL Servers using 3.5 MB/s down, 512k up ADSL2+, so I wonder how many special cases there are out there that will make the investment worthwhile. But I guess I prefer it to handouts like "Ruddbucks" if that is the alternative...

You know how 10 years ago most small companies were running on modems? Have a look at the average bandwidth utilisation numbers over the past few years. remember when advance bank was the first to do decent internet banking? That was not long ago, try living without internet banking now.

"Oh there are other bottlenecks" - come on you solve bottlenecks one at a time. Have a look at australias total external bandwidth in, say, 95. The argument fails unless you think we have reached the pinnacle of productive connectivity usage.

If you can upload 1GB/hr currently you are doing well. And are exactly half of the simulation number promised by the simulation. That is reality. No xDSL does 2GB/hr upload without having doubled adapters. And no one in the world thinks that is a sensible idea for wide deployment.

Given someone like me pays a f*ckload of the taxes that support the rest of the people in this country doesn't it make sense you encourage weird f*ckers like me to sit in their houses and generate sh*t tons of income for the rest of you? The populace only needs a few freaks and most of those freaks are the people saying "do the NBN".

If you can find me someone paying more than, say, 200K in actual taxes saying the NBN is a bad idea I will happily convert them over in a few seconds.

Anyone paying less in taxes can shut the f*ck up and watch their fast porn paid for by the tax payers.

I am not harping at you specifically but you are representing some retarded thinking here I think. If you have been supporting SQL over low bandwidth I _know_ how many times you have gotten seriously frustrated and considered throwing the computer at the wall and getting a bar job, especially after ctrl B stopped altering the bar between results and you had to use a mouse to do it (only thing I reminisce fondly about SQl2K).

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I dunno, I got my 120 MB download and 2.5 upload without the NBN.

I know FTTH is cool and all but I wonder:

--What percentage of the population can really utilise that speed, especially the upload. If you need that upload speed then my guess is that you are doing something better suited to a data centre than the home. I rarely get close to my using up my download bandwidth because there is some other bottleneck e.g. the website, international pipes, whatever.

--What % of the population work from home (ok, some more can maybe work from home due to the NBN). Otherwise it's after hours pet videos, HD tv streaming and pr0n. Maybe it makes life more fun/convenient and therefore worthwhile, shrug.

--Will the economic benefit be worth the eventual cost. It's very nice but so is rail to extra suburbs etc. I guess it's about choices and Labor made one.

I managed to cope supporting remote (international) SQL Servers using 3.5 MB/s down, 512k up ADSL2+, so I wonder how many special cases there are out there that will make the investment worthwhile. But I guess I prefer it to handouts like "Ruddbucks" if that is the alternative...

Cloud, Skype (HD video conferencing) could all benefit from increased upload speed. The history of the science is punctuated by things that were previously impossible becoming possible. Fractal graphics weren't possible until computing speeds made it so. Genome mapping the same? Seriously the applications of the future won't be developed until they feasibly can be. Personally, I can't wait for holographic pr0n.

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Cloud, Skype (HD video conferencing) could all benefit from increased upload speed. The history of the science is punctuated by things that were previously impossible becoming possible. Fractal graphics weren't possible until computing speeds made it so. Genome mapping the same? Seriously the applications of the future won't be developed until they feasibly can be. Personally, I can't wait for holographic pr0n.

That may all be the case, but is it going to happen from home? (as a side-track, how useful do people really find video conferencing ... we usually end up with screen sharing and audio but have no interest in everyone's ugly mug?).

The alternative is that you have CBD's, office parks etc. connected to very high speed fibre where you can reach a large proportion of businesses for a much lower cost and then service homes depending on the scenario (mixture of ADSL, fibre, 3G, satellite etc depending on distance and density).

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Personally, I can't wait for holographic pr0n.

Virtual wife swapping will probably be as psychologically scarring unfortunately. Especially because _he_ can photoshop himself :)

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That may all be the case, but is it going to happen from home? (as a side-track, how useful do people really find video conferencing ... we usually end up with screen sharing and audio but have no interest in everyone's ugly mug?).

as opposed to those really interesting meetings you go to face to face?

Spend some time at home with your kids and those other things that non tax payers claim to like doing. Don't spend 2 hrs a day in a car doing nothing and having boring car stories to tell your partner when you get home.

Seriously for everyone reading this _never_ talk about your car stories, they are the most boring stories in the world and they are why I encourage my partners to just quit their f*cking jobs. Man they are boring. You might think you are telling the road warrior story of the century but it is the same every f*cking night. We non commuters get it, driving sucks and everyone in the world is an arsehole and you are awesome.

Mostly we look at you and tolerate your venting but secretly think way way less of you for it. Why would you go through that thing you hate every day and feel obliged to tell me? Oh because you aren't good enough to not do it. Sucks to be you, sucks to listen.

And if you drive a manual in rush hour you are either poor or deluded. heh control at 40 km.

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as opposed to those really interesting meetings you go to face to face?

Nope, I'm a non-commuter too, one that got by on 3.5 MB/s and am getting by fractionally (oops) better on 120 MB/s.

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That may all be the case, but is it going to happen from home? (as a side-track, how useful do people really find video conferencing ... we usually end up with screen sharing and audio but have no interest in everyone's ugly mug?).

The alternative is that you have CBD's, office parks etc. connected to very high speed fibre where you can reach a large proportion of businesses for a much lower cost and then service homes depending on the scenario (mixture of ADSL, fibre, 3G, satellite etc depending on distance and density).

That's the point though. We don't know. We won't know until the applications are developed. They can't be developed until we have the technology to support the applications. It's chicken and egg but do you want to wait until some other bastards make a mint from the next big thing while we sit here in this country claiming we could have done that if only?

Virtual wife swapping will probably be as psychologically scarring unfortunately. Especially because _he_ can photoshop himself

:laugh:

What about a virtualised holographic fighting game? Instead of avatars we could go mano-a-mano in our respective lounge rooms. No doubt you would kick my arse but not if I cheated. Sex and violence. Awesome.

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That's the point though. We don't know. We won't know until the applications are developed. They can't be developed until we have the technology to support the applications. It's chicken and egg but do you want to wait until some other bastards make a mint from the next big thing while we sit here in this country claiming we could have done that if only?

Hotdog software is all I will say. Actually no, f*ck him. "Easy to create web pages" they were f*cking easy already. Why the hell would any pizza place want a webpage in the first place let alone an "easy to create" one. Oh because they could sell more pizza. But now we have pizza on the net we don't need anything more. And the "I'll wrap up a note pad interface with a few html markups" guy sold his company and is probably not even considering virtual wife swapping.

What about a virtualised holographic fighting game? Instead of avatars we could go mano-a-mano in our respective lounge rooms. No doubt you would kick my arse but not if I cheated. Sex and violence. Awesome.

I don't mind if you cheat so long as I look better :)

Chicks dig the dude that dies with dignity for a noble cause and especially if they have six packs.

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Hotdog software is all I will say. Actually no, f*ck him. "Easy to create web pages" they were f*cking easy already. Why the hell would any pizza place want a webpage in the first place let alone an "easy to create" one. Oh because they could sell more pizza. But now we have pizza on the net we don't need anything more. And the "I'll wrap up a note pad interface with a few html markups" guy sold his company and is probably not even considering virtual wife swapping.

Damn you're onto me. Here was I about to create the next dot com bubble by bigging up my new holographic sex and violence enginetm and I was righteously busted. I'll get you gadget. One day...

I don't mind if you cheat so long as I look better :)/>

Chicks dig the dude that dies with dignity for a noble cause and especially if they have six packs.

Get in the ring dude. Wait till I pull out my steam powered, hand held gatling gun. You'll die alright! :) At the hands of a fat bastard!

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as opposed to those really interesting meetings you go to face to face?

Spend some time at home with your kids and those other things that non tax payers claim to like doing. Don't spend 2 hrs a day in a car doing nothing and having boring car stories to tell your partner when you get home.

Seriously for everyone reading this _never_ talk about your car stories, they are the most boring stories in the world and they are why I encourage my partners to just quit their f*cking jobs. Man they are boring. You might think you are telling the road warrior story of the century but it is the same every f*cking night. We non commuters get it, driving sucks and everyone in the world is an arsehole and you are awesome.

Mostly we look at you and tolerate your venting but secretly think way way less of you for it. Why would you go through that thing you hate every day and feel obliged to tell me? Oh because you aren't good enough to not do it. Sucks to be you, sucks to listen.

And if you drive a manual in rush hour you are either poor or deluded. heh control at 40 km.

Amen. The IQ is inversely related to the distance of the commute.

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Amen. The IQ is inversely related to the distance of the commute.

Then my IQ must be so low it is a negative number.

My boss has tentatively agreed to allow me to commute from Sweden blink.gif

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Then my IQ must be so low it is a negative number.

My boss has tentatively agreed to allow me to commute from Sweden blink.gif

If you draw a bell curve, cut it out and fold it into a circle using the x-axis then there is a fine point between very very stupid and very very smart.

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Then my IQ must be so low it is a negative number.

My boss has tentatively agreed to allow me to commute from Sweden blink.gif

That's one hell of a drive, hope you don't encounter traffic. lol.

What's that look like? Presuming you need to return every month or two, who pays for the flights and accommodation etc?

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That's one hell of a drive, hope you don't encounter traffic. lol.

What's that look like? Presuming you need to return every month or two, who pays for the flights and accommodation etc?

Yeah, driving will be suuuch a drag! (had to fit that in to tease tor, hehehe!)

Well, I had to try to sell the idea to my boss so I suggested I would pay for all the travel and accommodation costs myself. Return airfares are much cheaper Scandinavia-Australia-Scandinavia than the other way around. So showing up in person every 3 months or so would be about $1500 x 4 per year. Not too bad. We have moved to a cheap 2-bedroom rental here that the kids will take over, with a sofa bed to take care of my local visits.

I can be on-line during Australian afternoons by getting up at 4am over there. I told my boss to fire me if it doesn't work or if I don't perform.

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