wulfgar

Broadband looms as election pawn

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Whatever your persausion this will be an unfortunate victim of the "Mad Monk".

These days 6 billion will buy you 15 brand new jumbo jets. Somehow the Mad Monk figures that an advanced Broad Band network can be created for the price of 15 jumbo jets?

Maybe he figures little Elves will come out during the night and built it for milk and cookies? :wacko:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/broadband-looms-as-election-pawn-20100822-13afe.html

Broadband looms as election pawn

August 22, 2010 - 11:15AM

Senior Liberal senator Nick Minchin believes the Coalition's $6 billion broadband plan will be more attractive to three country-based independent MPs, whose support both parties appear likely to need to govern.

Mr Micnhin said he sensed the independents favoured the cheaper plan pushed by the Liberal and Nationals than Labor's planned $43 billion network.

The Coalition's plan was very much focused on regional and rural Australia, Senator Minchin said.

''Our policy is to focus taxpayer resources where they are most needed and that is to provide services where they would otherwise be uneconomic and that is in rural and regional Australian,'' he told Sky News.

''Frankly I think our broadband policy should be much more attractive and it is much more economically responsible to the three independents.''

Senator Minchin played down the possibility of a fourth independent joining the crossbench.

Andrew Wilkie is favoured to win the Hobart-based seat of Denison from Labor. He told ABC Television his chances were a little better than 50-50. But Senator Minchin said it was too early to predict a result.

''We are really talking about the three conservative total independents who are going to decide who governs this country,'' he said.

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Bob Katter who used to be with the Nationals is big on providing the bush with good broadband. He is also big on health for the bush. I'm wondering whether he may side with Labor. ohmy.gif

Though the NBN is supposed to only cover 93% of the population, whilst the Liberal's alternative is supposed to cover 97%.

Either case, I suspect that the next election is most likely to be well within 3 years. I can't see neither the Liberals or Labor able to freely implement their policies under a hung parliament. Also the knives will be out for Gillard's back. I can't see her leading Labor at the next election.

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ohmy.gif

Though the NBN is supposed to only cover 93% of the population, whilst the Liberal's alternative is supposed to cover 97%.

And you'll get something worthwhile for the price of 15 jumbo jets?

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And you'll get something worthwhile for the price of 15 jumbo jets?

It will be faster than the current situation. But not as good as the NBN which is what will be required for the future. I just can't believe that the NBN needs to cost that much. Looking how Labor overpaid/wasted money on school projects, I'd like to think that there are more cost efficient methods of deploying an NBN.

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It will be faster than the current situation. But not as good as the NBN which is what will be required for the future. I just can't believe that the NBN needs to cost that much. Looking how Labor overpaid/wasted money on school projects, I'd like to think that there are more cost efficient methods of deploying an NBN.

When you roll out what is a completely new infrastructure system to how many households and business addresses?

43 billion = 100 brand new jumbo jets.

Do you think you could fit out Melbourne and Sydney for the LNP price of 8 jumbo jets?

I can tell you the LNP plan is the waste of money because the result will be as good as zero.

Is there a tor in the house?

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The coalition idea sounds like it will be a half assed compromise, something we'll be spending tens of billions more on upgrading, or redoing properly in the future, long after we would have forgotten about the 43 billion it would have cost to do it right in the first place.

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The coalition idea sounds like it will be a half assed compromise, something we'll be spending tens of billions more on upgrading, or redoing properly in the future, long after we would have forgotten about the 43 billion it would have cost to do it right in the first place.

It's a minor upgrade that will be obsolete in no time. It doesn't remedy the deplorable state of Telstra infrastructure. The one Telstra is demanding 12 billion for the government gaining the privilege to fix it for them.

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Telstra already has fibre all over the place.

When they rolled out NextG two years ago they were cutting massive trenches everywhere and laying fibre in them, connecting their nextG towers to each other and to country exchanges. If there was some way to build on Telstra's infrastructure without having to be locked to Telstra, that would be lovely.

Not sure how much this means, but its still interesting.

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It will be faster than the current situation. But not as good as the NBN which is what will be required for the future. I just can't believe that the NBN needs to cost that much. Looking how Labor overpaid/wasted money on school projects, I'd like to think that there are more cost efficient methods of deploying an NBN.

It will be faster for some people but for many it will be pretty much what we have now. The liberals achieve a higher percentage by including those that already have what they are offering. I believe the guarantee was 10 Mbps. I already have that assuming the network is not congested.

As technology improves I am sure we will see higher speeds on copper but they will not achieve the speeds capable on fibre and, as the rest of the world moves to fibre, there will be less investment in those technologies so I don't know if we will see much more coming out of copper.

I have no doubts whatsoever that the NBN will waste money. Several of the other guys working on NBN have made comments regarding various office type things on NBN which they see as a waste. None of them correlate that wastage with the same waste we see at other companies we go in to though.

The big thing though is that telstra gets to keep its monopoly and we get what they want to give us at the prices that want us to pay.

I would like to see how much money has been spent by the government in court with telstra fighting for the competition which is in law and telstra doesn't like.

I guess we have to add to that the amount telstra spent because we pay that side too.

I wonder if that adds up to the liberals plan.

If we are happy to watch a company with a monopoly continue to fire engineers and hire lawyers rather than build infrastructure then the liberal plan is probably a go.

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:starwars:

Well the government got a good penny for the sale in 30 billion dollars. Unfortunately the Howard government sent all that money to a Caribbean bank and it is working for the full benefit of an American Elite Bank these days.

As it turns out it certainly wasn't worth it. Even the free market Demi-god Adam Smith pointed out that private monopolies are a disaster for every except the private monopoly.

If we are happy to watch a company with a monopoly continue to fire engineers and hire lawyers rather than build infrastructure then the liberal plan is probably a go.

A friend told me about a decade ago that 5% of the American GDP is spent on lawyers. And even to him an America worshiping freak this was America's darkest element.

My phone line has gone dead 3x in the last 6 years. :wheelchair:

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If one assumes this is the information age then who in their right mind would support a monopoly on information?

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If one assumes this is the information age then who in their right mind would support a monopoly on information?

Those who are planning to own or control the monopoly!

Notice a certain political party desires the private monopoly to remain.

200px-Drevil_million_dollars.jpg

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Hooray new Liberals plan for the NBN. Fibre to the node but, and here is the new bit, 25Mb links somehow.

This is cheaper apparently. I think they said 30 billion.

I reckon for 20 billion I could come up with an imaginary magical plan too though. ADSL2+ has a _theoretical_ max of 24Mb from memory so maybe the liberals have got a new tech they are going to run over the decades old beaten up copper that links your house to the local DSLAM...

Oh and I think that any price for a 1Mb theoretical speed increase is pretty much a waste of money anyway.

(Note I was somewhat not listening during this speech and could have got details wrong, Turnbull was funny though, every time Tony got a number right Turnbull smiled like his student had done good).

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Hooray new Liberals plan for the NBN. Fibre to the node but, and here is the new bit, 25Mb links somehow.

This is cheaper apparently. I think they said 30 billion.

I reckon for 20 billion I could come up with an imaginary magical plan too though. ADSL2+ has a _theoretical_ max of 24Mb from memory so maybe the liberals have got a new tech they are going to run over the decades old beaten up copper that links your house to the local DSLAM...

Oh and I think that any price for a 1Mb theoretical speed increase is pretty much a waste of money anyway.

(Note I was somewhat not listening during this speech and could have got details wrong, Turnbull was funny though, every time Tony got a number right Turnbull smiled like his student had done good).

A second rate network infrastructure for a second rate country. Obsolete before they even finish building it.

What's more the cost of upgrading from FTTN to FTTP will be prohibitive such that it won't be done for years to come after the completion of FTTN in 2019.

Apparently vectoring will allow for _theoretical_ speeds of up 50mpbs. This relies heavily on having copper that is in 'good' condition. Telstra stated in 2003 that the condition of their copper was "five minutes from midnight". They were mightily pleased that the government payed them 11 billion for the use of the existing conduits. They must be over the moon that the LNP will pay them more to maintain and upgrade it. I should have kept my shares.

FTTP provides _theoretical_ maximums of 1000mpbs allowing some future proofing. But that doesn't stop George Brandis telling outright fibs on Sky news that the two schemes will provide the same speeds.

Fibre lasts longer and isn't subject to corrosion. It allows for less signal attenuation and less noise over distance as well as better speed. The maintenance costs are lower. But let's stick with copper because it's "cheaper" in the short term. I'd be interested in the TCO calculations but I haven't seen any.

Still the interests of pay TV providers like newscorp are being served so the no doubt the LNP will be handsomely rewarded for their efforts.

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FTTP provides _theoretical_ maximums of 1000mpbs allowing some future proofing. But that doesn't stop George Brandis telling outright fibs on Sky news that the two schemes will provide the same speeds.

and I think terabit per second is likely to be implemented via fibre as well.

I'll need faster disks when that shows up...

Actually I'll need faster eyes too I guess - have to watch all movies at double speed:)

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and I think terabit per second is likely to be implemented via fibre as well.

I'll need faster disks when that shows up...

Actually I'll need faster eyes too I guess - have to watch all movies at double speed:)

I have the feeling I'll be long dead by the time terabit per second shows up. :sadwalk:

I have apple tv and it's unwatchable between 6-12 pm even with ADSL2+. I suspect it's partly contention. I can tell what time the gamers in my neighbourhood go to bed. :)

I don't even try to watch Game of thrones until the next day. :o:)

Noise to signal ratios are woeful on my copper especially when it rains.

I have recently discovered that I have another FTTP option in the ACT other than the NBN and will be moving across soon. 1 Tb download, 100 mpbs for $110 here I come.

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I have the feeling I'll be long dead by the time terabit per second shows up. :sadwalk:/>

Oh? I didn't realise you were so sick. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terabit_Ethernet claims a couple of years for a possible standard.

I have apple tv and it's unwatchable between 6-12 pm even with ADSL2+. I suspect it's partly contention. I can tell what time the gamers in my neighbourhood go to bed. :)/>

I don't even try to watch Game of thrones until the next day. :o/> :)/>

Noise to signal ratios are woeful on my copper especially when it rains.

Nah that is just the apple tv :)

That was the first piece of apple equipment I ever bought and it could do HD decoding without crashing half the time. I have yet to buy another piece of apple equipment.

I have recently discovered that I have another FTTP option in the ACT other than the NBN and will be moving across soon. 1 Tb download, 100 mpbs for $110 here I come.

Who is that with?

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Oh? I didn't realise you were so sick. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terabit_Ethernet claims a couple of years for a possible standard.

Nah that is just the apple tv :)/>

That was the first piece of apple equipment I ever bought and it could do HD decoding without crashing half the time. I have yet to buy another piece of apple equipment.

Who is that with?

I guess I should have said "available to me". :)

hehe. A lot of the forums blame ITunes. The thing I liked about apple tv was no ads and I only pay for what I watch. Only after purchase did I discover it's crapness. The man in the shop was convincing.

Transact are offering it with their FTTP Res3 plan. (You have to use the drop down lists to find the deal)

Actual speeds below are claimed

290453FA1FA34DD1A8FEB0377D026AAA.gif

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Fibre lasts longer and isn't subject to corrosion. It allows for less signal attenuation and less noise over distance as well as better speed. The maintenance costs are lower.

It's not necessarily so. The other thing to consider is optical fibre is quite brittle, so if it degrades it generally means a service outage, whereas when copper degrades it results in lower speeds.

I've heard some anecdotes about those contracted to lay cables for NBN. Generally speaking everything is politically driven so quality is not a concern, just get it done now now now! For (some of) the work in Tasmania cables had to be laid THREE TIMES because cable layers were rushed by bureaucrats and the network didn't work.

FTTH is nice but it going to be waaaay more expensive, and the way that the gubment wastes money FTTN may be more attractive.

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It's not necessarily so. The other thing to consider is optical fibre is quite brittle, so if it degrades it generally means a service outage, whereas when copper degrades it results in lower speeds.

I've heard some anecdotes about those contracted to lay cables for NBN. Generally speaking everything is politically driven so quality is not a concern, just get it done now now now! For (some of) the work in Tasmania cables had to be laid THREE TIMES because cable layers were rushed by bureaucrats and the network didn't work.

FTTH is nice but it going to be waaaay more expensive, and the way that the gubment wastes money FTTN may be more attractive.

The point is it doesn't degrade Mr M. It's made of glass. Fibre can be struck by lightning and because it doesn't carry current the signal is unaffected. Interestingly post hurricane sandy the FCC in the US have recommended the replacement of copper in lower Manhattan with fibre as salt soaked copper networks were problematic to restore compared to fibre. The maintenance cost savings from FTTP have been estimated at 700M per annum. Which is why I want to see some total cost of ownership figures. If the fragility of fibre were a problem then I wonder why backbones would use it? There is government waste I agree but if the TCO figures for what is a massive investment for both parties is in the same ball park I'd prefer the higher speeds and long term productivity gains.

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I'm no IT guy. Far from it so I won't go there.

However here's a question, nothing to do with specific technology.

Talk of a high speed rail network is gathering steam*

My question is, wouldn't it be smarter to lay the NBN at the same time and along the same line as the Rail Network? The NBN and Rail Network would run from CBD to CBD from say, Cairns to Melbourne then extended out to Adelaide and Perth. It'd be the local councils responsibility to organise the NBN and public transport from the hub. And whilst I'm at it along the Rail Network create a bike network that runs along side of it . It could run a dual purpose of providing access to emergency services and maintenance crews.

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I'm no IT guy. Far from it so I won't go there.

However here's a question, nothing to do with specific technology.

Talk of a high speed rail network is gathering steam*

My question is, wouldn't it be smarter to lay the NBN at the same time and along the same line as the Rail Network? The NBN and Rail Network would run from CBD to CBD from say, Cairns to Melbourne then extended out to Adelaide and Perth. It'd be the local councils responsibility to organise the NBN and public transport from the hub. And whilst I'm at it along the Rail Network create a bike network that runs along side of it . It could run a dual purpose of providing access to emergency services and maintenance crews.

I'm not a cable laying guy but at a guess:

1. The cost of laying the fibre is mostly in the populated areas, out in the country you could probably just go in a straight line with no time restrictions etc

2. There is probably already a decent size underground conduit between the cities and you don't even need to dig a new one

3. I am not sure if having something as vibratey as a train right next to a cable run would be a great idea

The bike lane is a good idea though. Imagine the draft you could pick up :)

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