staringclown

NBN thread

74 posts in this topic

I live in the area covered by the South Brisbane exchange, which will be demolished soon.

Telstra will not replace the exchange with new copper connections, but instead there will be fibre to all the properties in the area. The promised speeds will be 100mb/s downstream and 5mb/s upstream (I think). At the moment my ADSL2+ link provides a 14/1 mb/s link.

Has anyone had experience with fibre speeds? Will there be much of a difference? If it really is such a big deal, perhaps this part of town will be swamped by IT nerds!

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Since my rant on another thread about the NBN it just occurred to me that this infrastructure project would be very useful for a government to control all internet traffic in a country.

Big brother will be able to switch off (anti-)social media in areas where riots are occurring and it will be easier to filter access to websites.

Or am I too paranoid?

Are you guys comfortable with Gillard/Conroy or an Abbott government having this level of power over information flow?

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Since my rant on another thread about the NBN it just occurred to me that this infrastructure project would be very useful for a government to control all internet traffic in a country.

Big brother will be able to switch off (anti-)social media in areas where riots are occurring and it will be easier to filter access to websites.

Or am I too paranoid?

Are you guys comfortable with Gillard/Conroy or an Abbott government having this level of power over information flow?

The conspiracy theorist in me tells me that the evolution of this very expensive NBN policy came about due to promises that could not be kept without upping the ante on an initial more sound policy.

First there was Rudds fibre to the node policy where he was warned during the election that it would cost more than he thought. Once in power with the costs which were much higher than he expected he said, well rather than looking like a goose he might as well provide something much better where I can budget it properly to begin with. Running 100% over a small budget in Australia is seen as much worse than a stupid policy running at budget... We do not have the insight to understnad when we get bang for our buck, we do not even seem to care that the economic benifits of this are uknown with comparisons by Labor to hard economic infrastructure like the snowy hydro being touted and yet the benifits of this were clear and well understood at the time it was built... IT was not like they built it only to find it did make a difference.

Second (and this is relevant to your post) there was the internet filter which would cause some noticeable difference to data loads as I understand it. I am guessing to a degree around this not being in the field but I suspect if there was a noticeable difference people would have used this to make Labor look like luddites. By bringing in a fibre to the home network the end result will be faster whatever amount of layers or checks and balances are done on the data before you get it and any extra data load negligible.

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Big brother will be able to switch off (anti-)social media in areas where riots are occurring and it will be easier to filter access to websites.

Or am I too paranoid?

Are you guys comfortable with Gillard/Conroy or an Abbott government having this level of power over information flow?

the day the oz govt can effectively sensor the net for propaganda is the day i send them a donation cheque.

they could shut down the whole Internet, that would be easy and work, but could only be very temporary. in the case of riots that might be justifiable. but as soon as they shut down one site another would pop up.

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The conspiracy theorist in me tells me that the evolution of this very expensive NBN policy came about due to promises that could not be kept without upping the ante on an initial more sound policy.

First there was Rudds fibre to the node policy where he was warned during the election that it would cost more than he thought. Once in power with the costs which were much higher than he expected he said, well rather than looking like a goose he might as well provide something much better where I can budget it properly to begin with. Running 100% over a small budget in Australia is seen as much worse than a stupid policy running at budget... We do not have the insight to understnad when we get bang for our buck, we do not even seem to care that the economic benifits of this are uknown with comparisons by Labor to hard economic infrastructure like the snowy hydro being touted and yet the benifits of this were clear and well understood at the time it was built... IT was not like they built it only to find it did make a difference.

Second (and this is relevant to your post) there was the internet filter which would cause some noticeable difference to data loads as I understand it. I am guessing to a degree around this not being in the field but I suspect if there was a noticeable difference people would have used this to make Labor look like luddites. By bringing in a fibre to the home network the end result will be faster whatever amount of layers or checks and balances are done on the data before you get it and any extra data load negligible.

not relevant to anders post but to yours tom....

yes it's all about politics. everyone shall be equal, all will get 100.1256mps speed. that's just bs.

the policy should be improvement and needs based. i get 4870kps and that's enough for my work, wanking and watching needs. i don't really need blistering high speed atm. give it those in the outer burbs who are still stuck with dial up. the policy chucks out present cable that is very fast for most.

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not relevant to anders post but to yours tom....

yes it's all about politics. everyone shall be equal, all will get 100.1256mps speed. that's just bs.

the policy should be improvement and needs based. i get 4870kps and that's enough for my work, wanking and watching needs. i don't really need blistering high speed atm. give it those in the outer burbs who are still stuck with dial up. the policy chucks out present cable that is very fast for most.

Absolutely.

As you say the city has fast internet already and if a company has to have very fast internet their are places / buildings which already have it. Surely it is more efficient for companies to go where the internet is rather than roll out a 42bn dollar high speed internet to everywhere so they have more options?

On private citizens I think similarly. If you live in the regions take it that you might have lesser services. People seem to complain about anything from higher mortality rates for heart attacks to a smaller local library but what do they expect? Expect less government services if you are going to live in the country (unless you live in new england...)

I am not saying they should be left out, but again there has to be a pay back for investment whether it be social payback, economic or even cultural. You just don't build world class hospitals or blisteringly fast internet infrastructure for all of your population and in attempting to your society generally will suffer a lower standard of living in aggregate.

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Your monthly bill will go up.

Well, fibre is supposed to be connected to my house later this month. I have still no news from TPG about what they will charge me.

But let's look at some indicative prices:

With TPG i get unlimited download + a home phone line for $29.95 + $30.00 = $59.95

http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/adsl2plus_pricing.php?/pricing/homephone

I currently get 14 mb/s download speed and 1 mb/s upload speed (14/1 mb/s)

The Internode South Brisbane fibre plan at the slowest speed 30/1 mb/s cost $89.95 for a maximum download of 100Gb per month.

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/fibre_to_the_home/south_brisbane/

The Internode pricing for the slowest NBN plan (12/1 mb/s) will cost $79.95 for 200GB per month.

A fast plan 100/4 with 200GB per month will cost $119.95

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/fibre_to_the_home/nbn_plans/

WTF?

So, not only do I have to pay for the NBN with my taxes, my cheapest NBN option will offer slower speed, lower download limit - for a higher price per month!!!

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i get 4870kps and that's enough for my work, wanking and watching needs. i don't really need blistering high speed atm.

Thanks zaph for your brutal honesty, but isn't that a little too much information!!!

"blistering high speed".

Ouch!

:shocking::crybaby:

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So, not only do I have to pay for the NBN with my taxes, my cheapest NBN option will offer slower speed, lower download limit - for a higher price per month!!!

That is to be expected when a selection process is fundamentally flawed.

I wondered if it was going to start getting tragic when the takeup numbers start to hit the market.... Then the service providers will be left with the choice of upping the rates for the few who go to it to get a return or just wear the losses. Would the government swallow its pride and cancel the NBN? Not a chance. They would sooner give a subsidy to the internet to reduce the rates and claim it is required just initially to get people taking it up. Maybe something costing 2bn a year but expected to only be required for a year or two in forward estimates.

Of course if you are in a capital city once the independants ensured equity in pricing between regions and cities that cities were going to pay more than what the market could provide if only pricing to the city. If regions would pay their dues no one would take it up there. Really it points to the very essence of why it is not feasable to provide it in the first instance. I imagine if the gov was only rolling it out in the bush it would cost some ungodly amount per month to subscribe. I don't need to be in telecommunications to understand this, it is always the way with scale. In the same way we do not build 3 lane freeways connecting country towns simply because it is not feasable due to useage nor would one try to get super high speed internet to them when they are spaced so far apart.

Anyway time will tell, it is still a political winner so lets see how Labor go managing to keep it that way.

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not relevant to anders post but to yours tom....

yes it's all about politics. everyone shall be equal, all will get 100.1256mps speed. that's just bs.

the policy should be improvement and needs based. i get 4870kps and that's enough for my work, wanking and watching needs. i don't really need blistering high speed atm. give it those in the outer burbs who are still stuck with dial up. the policy chucks out present cable that is very fast for most.

Until we see the TTW (Time to wank) index dropping the productivity of this country will continue to wane.

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OK, that's enough of the smut, guys! :mad:

It is time to beat this flaccid discussion and erect some stiff arguments that can deposit some deep seeds of thoughts into the... uh ... ahm ...

Hmmm.... I think I just made a mess of that one.

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OK, that's enough of the smut, guys! :mad:

It is time to beat this flaccid discussion and erect some stiff arguments that can deposit some deep seeds of thoughts into the... uh ... ahm ...

Hmmm.... I think I just made a mess of that one.

Ohhhh...... :sadwalk:

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OK, that's enough of the smut, guys! :mad:

It is time to beat this flaccid discussion and erect some stiff arguments that can deposit some deep seeds of thoughts into the... uh ... ahm ...

Hmmm.... I think I just made a mess of that one.

Pun night started and I was asleep. Bah!

I guess I am of the opinion that the transactional savings the internet brings into play could scale a bit more. If that is the case it is worth taking the hit.

I also have a little dream where Australia's tradition of people taking all their good ideas and running off overseas to develop them might slow down a bit if we can effectively develop stuff here. I am not sure why it would happen but I can only see good communications helping.

I can see a world where everything is talking to everything constantly having some incredibly great things in it.

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I can see a world where everything is talking to everything constantly having some incredibly great things in it.

The other side of that coin is though;

That it may also invariably see an increase in cyber "evil".

Stealing ideas and identities is now a real risk as people put more of their thoughts in the public forum.

This is not to demean what you say, but to highlight that human "nature", uses everything at its disposal to be destructive as well.

Sorry, this is probably a little negative, but I will put it out there in this debate.

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The other side of that coin is though;

That it may also invariably see an increase in cyber "evil".

Stealing ideas and identities is now a real risk as people put more of their thoughts in the public forum.

This is not to demean what you say, but to highlight that human "nature", uses everything at its disposal to be destructive as well.

Sorry, this is probably a little negative, but I will put it out there in this debate.

I think that the amount of naughtiness going on is probably fairly static. The methods change as technology changes and anything illegal on computers gets a lot more coverage.

So I don't really see an increase in naughtiness occurring with ubiquitous connectivity. There will be an increase in reporting though.

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The other side of that coin is though;

That it may also invariably see an increase in cyber "evil".

Stealing ideas and identities is now a real risk as people put more of their thoughts in the public forum.

This is not to demean what you say, but to highlight that human "nature", uses everything at its disposal to be destructive as well.

Sorry, this is probably a little negative, but I will put it out there in this debate.

It's not just evil.

Stupidity plays a role as well. There is a group of people out there who are not coping well with the whole facebook experience.

Most of them are younger teenagers and are inexperienced, vulnerable and stupid. Perfect victims, if you are so inclined - and someone out there will be, for sure.

Assuming they fail to be picked off by the 'evil' few, a lot of those kids are still a powerful argument for that proposition whereby you change your name on reaching your majority, in order to avoid being associated with any of your daft youthful on-line adventures in later life...

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...a lot of those kids are still a powerful argument for that proposition whereby you change your name on reaching your majority, in order to avoid being associated with any of your daft youthful on-line adventures in later life...

I agree regarding the stupidity and I guess having your stupid actions easily searchable is probably a bad thing. Have to find out if people eventually learn and start being responsible younger or if young people will always be stupid and something like this will be needed.

I was thinking about this actually a while back and thought one of the problems with it is that the new identity will essentially be a cipher; no past or anything. That might look weird, kind of like having no credit history.

Which makes an interesting business plan present itself. Start creating online personas and building them up with a consistent personality then sell those personalities later to people that need new ones. Would take a few years work for an unknown payout but it could be quite lucrative I guess. Some technical problems with it but nothing insurmountable.

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Would this make the NBN an obsolete waste of money?

 

 

 

South Korea, already one of the most wired countries on Earth, has announced a 1.6 trillion won ($1.7 billion) plan to roll out a next-generation 5G wireless service fast enough to download full-length films in a second.

The science ministry said it aims to implement the technology within six years....

 

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If you got phone service their billion dollar plan would definitely be able to saturate our backbone.

 

Except of course mobile data rates are oddly expensive so not many could afford to get that movie.

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Would this make the NBN an obsolete waste of money?

 

 

 

 

 

It would certainly have valuable applications (particularly for regions) but as for invalidating the NBN FTTH option, no it wouldn't. Fibre has just reached speeds of 44 movies in one second. Which is the beauty of fibre. Just change the end points. 

 

Korea started rolling out FTTH in 2004

 

 

Korea made the switch to FTTH in 2004, according to a BuddeComm report, and since 2006 it has targeted a 50Mbps to 100Mbps speed. The government's Broadcasting Communications Network Long-Term Development Plan now aims to build an all-IP high-speed broadband network.

However, the country has faced numerous challenges along the road to high-speed broadband. For example, Korea’s cities have a large number of high-rise residential and commercial buildings, which Gregory says are being connected through VDSL.

"If the buildings are older then they will have limited copper within the building and access to the ducts necessary to put fibre [in] can be an issue. In some cases the ducts cannot be accessed and putting fibre into the building becomes a major issue - not insurmountable, just more expensive and time consuming," Gregory says.

"A design where fibre is run to the building and then VDSL2 is used over copper within the building is one of the key approaches being utilised around the world ... But their [eventual] goal is to replace all of this with fibre to the home."

Korea is also a highly populated and mountainous country, so implementing regional wireless in some areas has been difficult, according to Gregory. This has posed issues with installing FTTH or making wireless available.

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8 years after this thread was started, it is looking like the NBN will end up being largely an unnecessary waste of a much larger than originally budgeted amount of tax payers' money!

NBN chair rejects S&P write-down claim

Quote

...global ratings agency Standard & Poor's on Wednesday said the NBN risks being relegated to a “network of last resort” amid the rise of 5G mobile services,  and that a write-down of the massive infrastructure project by the federal government "appears inevitable".

In a report released on Wednesday that reverberated throughout the telecommunications industry and in Canberra, S&P said official forecasts for the take-up of the NBN of between 73 per cent and 75 per cent by 2021 will be "difficult to achieve", raising the prospect the government will be forced to slash the value of the asset on its books....

 

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