Don't buy extended warranties

[Max Carnage 35]

Just read and understand this from the NSW Office of Fair Trading (it's nationally significant because it's interpreted from the Trade Practices Act):

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Statutory warranties

Statutory conditions and warranties are implied by statutes or common law and require traders and manufacturers to ensure that every product provided is suitable for the purpose for which it is supplied.

Products must do their job properly, bearing in mind their price and the way they are described. This is a legal obligation that applies, whether or not a trader or manufacturer decides to provide a written warranty or guarantee (voluntary warranty).

Consumers may ask for a refund if the goods purchased:

    * are not of merchantable quality ie so defective that they should not have been sold, for example they don't work, they break down or they develop a serious fault. If an article becomes defective after sale, one of the considerations for merchantable quality would be the price received by the supplier for the goods (eg. a $2 watch wouldn't be expected to last as long as a $300 quality watch)

      * are not suitable for their intended reasonable purpose made known to the supplier, or

      * do not match the sample or description provided.

For example, a refrigerator is an expensive item. It is not unreasonable to expect it to last longer than 18 months before it�s ready for the scrap heap. Even if the voluntary warranty on the refrigerator has expired, a consumer may still have a valid complaint under the law if it had a structural fault eg. defective insulation not apparent at the time of purchase, which became obvious after only 18 months.

These statutory warranties cannot be excluded or modified by a manufacturer or trader when the product or service is bought for personal or domestic use, even if the consumer does not return a manufacturer�s guarantee card or notice provided with the goods.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

http://www.fairtradi...Warranties.html

[Sean 2]

hmm, interesting.  I was talking to someone just the other day who said they ALWAYS take out the extended warranties on expensive items as they are used to things blowing 2 days after the final day of the 12 month warranty or what have you.  They have made recourse to them more than once.

Even with IT devices, you expect any warranty to be taken literally by the vendor, e.g. if something goes over by 2 days, bad luck -- I had this experience with a particular brand of industrial sized printer once.  That guideline would have come in handy.

I had a line on my portable a/c (I know, a/c is bad ) blow just on the cusp of 24 month warranty recently, but luckily they fixed it -- I thought it was going to be much more expensive.  This NSW ruling gives consumers much more ammunition...  I'm used to the law being extremely black and white, and often against the consumer.

[tom 20]

My mazda tribute has just done its transmission.

I bought it second hand 2 years ago. I bought it from a toyota dealership in Melbourne, but of course having moved it to Brisbane and now Perth, have not returned to the nominated dealer for servicing.

Of course I cannot claim under the warrantee, but maybe a transmission breaking within five years of it being new is a fitness for purpose issue.

Small cliam? Don't know. There arre 1000s of the same example on the net, it would seem that mazdas and fords both have the same issue sharing this ford transmission.

Anyway even if I can't claim (probably can't) I know I will never buy a Mazda or Ford again, stick with Toyota or more reliable manufacturers.

But I realised that driving such cars probably does not do my credibility any good on a sustainability forum, maybe next time I will get one of these. Family car does 7.4L per 100km. Not bad. Thats nearly half the tribute 15L per 100km.

[Max Carnage 35]

Quote

Thats nearly half the tribute 15L per 100km.

Whoa! That's bananable! 

Kidding. That sucks.

Is the transmission issue the same one that's plaguing the Territories? Shocking. I'd try to fight it... it's just a matter of lodging an official complaint with your state/territory consumer affairs department. They'll try to mediate an outcome for you. If they can't, then you have the option of pursuing it through small claims. Note that they're pretty good at advising (off the record) on whether you're likely to be wasting your time or not.

Seriously consider the CA route - it costs you nothing and has a chance of some favourable outcome.

[RumpledElf 20]

I got talked into getting the extended warranty on my car (a Corolla) when I bought it at about 2 years old. Car is now 8 pushing 9, extended warranty is well and truly gone, and not a thing has gone wrong with it.

Definitely a waste of money. But it was my first car, so I'd obviously never done this before ...

The MIL bought us the extended warranty on the overly expensive and fantabulous Dyson she bought for us, and given that Dysons clog up something severe and actually need regular servicing whenever they are broken, THAT warranty was worth it, but I hazard a guess a cheaper vacuum might not need so much servicing!

[tom 20]

World,

Yeh I think if I had bought the car new I could have taken it up with Mazda, some have but there are worse horror stories then my own on the internet on other forums. One bloke within warrantee, who had servicing done by people other than mazda then had his transmission blow and they blame the one fluid change at 40,000km for the transmission fault! So no warrantee cover.

Thanks for the reference, I will try consumer affairs and as you say they will possibly tell me I have no chance but at least then I know for sure.

On the territory it is a different car the ford escape is identical. From the research I have done on the net, it would appear that it is the ford transmission that has the issues, so would not surprise me if territories are cactus as well.

RE,

You had no problems with your corrolla because it was a Toyota! Seriously I owned a 95 Camry, from when it had 90,000 km on the clock to 250,000km on the clock and only had to spend money on maintanance, timing belts, suspension, brakes, tyres etc. My wife told me how unproffessional it looked for me to be turning up for meeting etc in such a sh*t box, as I had driven it on sites, dinged it into fences, gates blew on it etc etc. It just never gave me mechanical trouble except once when the radiator blew, so I wanted to keep it forever.

Finally my wife got me to this toyota dealership on the way home from the city one saturday, and I signed up for this mazda and traded my perfectly good camry! It was when that radiator blew and cost me $750.00 that was the catalyst, her saying you need to get a reliable car. Yeh, well in retrospect I had one.

What a mistake. If your onto a good thing with a car stick to it.

[tom 20]

So WA does not have an office of fair trading that I can find. Maybe it really is the wild west over here. Just so they notch one up on there record though I will file a complaint once I work out what the complaint mechanism in WA is.

Anyway I bit the bullet this morning after the mechanic drained my transmission fluid and explained that all the metal in the fluid is what was causing the noise and it means that the transmission is on its last legs and showed me another transmission similar from the inside and yes I can see why it is making the noise.

I decided to fix it ($5000.00 approx) so it is now probably all too late to do anything about anyway waiting about a week before I get it back.

I suppose at least my vehicle is an employment related expense so I can claim it all back on tax. wow, now I sound like a property sruiker, nearly like Iv'e had a win! In reality I suppose it will have about a 3k hit on my savings by year end 09/10 as long as I maintain my employment status, I now wish I had worked out what was wrong one month ago! With the economy the way it is who knows what my tax return 09/10 will be.

EDIT (OK I found the WA equivalent:

Consumer Protection Advice Line (Commerce Department of)1300 304 054

219 St Georges Tce

Perth WA 6000)

[tom 20]

OK,

Just tried consumer protection and I am impressed, they picked up the phone straight through to an operator, no waiting. Then got transfered through to automotive again no waiting.

Anyway the bad news:

1. I would have to go to the magistrates court. There is no small claims court anymore, maybe that is only in WA but she tells me there is none here.

2. While lodging the action only costs $70.00, mazda is likely to throw a few dollars at it to fight it and if the outcome is not favourable, I would have to pay their court costs also.

3. I would have to prove that the fault was in the car upon manufacture she tells me beyond reasonable doubt, but I thought that was a criminal court thing, I always understood in civil cases it was just a balance of probabilities outcome, but I did not bother to explain to her the difference as I thought she was giving good advice overall.

4. She confirmed that the second hand warrantee is annulled when you don't follow the terms strictly.

So I think the risks outweigh the returns on this one. I know if mazda gets a lawyer or two involved anything could happen. The one time I have used lawyers at work just to write a few letters for me, cost the company 13k, so I'd hate to think what Mazda would spend on it.

Anyway at least I hope anyone reading this thinks twice about getting the fancy zoom zoom zoom cars, cause really you are better of with a boring Toyota.

EDIT (and back on topic, i.e. not buying extended warranties, if you are buying a used car but know you are moving somewhere too far to bring it back and service it ask them for a discount to lose the warrantee. Of course you will always get the 3 month stat warrantee regardless)

[tor 101]

And always always always buy on credit card.

It gives you an independent source for purchase dates and an awesome argument:

"Fine I will reverse the charge on my card."

When they have your cash you are screwed, when they only kind of have your cash they are screwed.

Then, and this is not for everyone, negotiate like an insane drunk bastard, take down names (first name surname initial is normally accepted by most helpdesk people, if not I always ask for the manager) take down times, take down promises.

Then send the email which states what everyone is going to do and if you don't get an email response call back and get that thing.

Your personal email is absolutely useless but theirs is something they are all having issues with now. Listed companies have some fairly strict rules around mail retention etc. Get it in email and it is a good start. Judge will probably suspect they have deleted rather than you have forged as a rule in my experience of judges.

[dp1 0]

Dealerships are all in cahoots with each other- got my VW from secondhand from -funnily enough- a Toyota dealership as well (maybe the same one as you , Tom??), extended warranty taken out as it was 8 years old and VW parts aren't cheap.

Started making funy noises about a week later.

Back to Toyota dealership- spent 2 weeks denying they could hear a noise, finally agreed to stump up $135 to get it tested by large VW dealership (clue ..."I want your business and I'm prepared to pay for it...").

Apparently all tests 'OK'.

Extended warranty cancelled at this point (50% refund), luckily I stumbled on an independent VW garage (elderly mechanic who restores old VWs for love rather than profit). He confirmed that all major dealers have 'gentleman's agreements' not to find any problems that customers can claim under warranty. He spent a further week getting to the source of the problem- total labour charge about $120 for the week (but $1000 for the new oxygen sensor- ouch!). The 11% improvement in fuel consumption will take 2 years to break even.

PS Rumpled Elf- Dyson used to write to you when the standard warranty was ending, asking if you would like to take the extended warranty. They didn't ask if it was already broken by this point or not- theoretically (if your conscience allows) you could take the warranty out on an already-broken dyson.......

[tom 20]

Dealerships are all in cahoots with each other- got my VW from secondhand from -funnily enough- a Toyota dealership as well (maybe the same one as you , Tom)...

Maybe Toyota has a plan to buy second hand cars of other makes hyjack them so that they breakdown and we all decide to buy Toyotas next time.

I know that was the outcome for me. I will never buy another make of car again. ever! They are just a simply sustainable kind of car!

I bought from Brighton toyota, and in truth it is not really their fault or problem in my case, if only I had stayed in Melbourne I would have serviced it there and it may have been a warrantee claim.

[RumpledElf 20]

PS Rumpled Elf- Dyson used to write to you when the standard warranty was ending, asking if you would like to take the extended warranty. They didn't ask if it was already broken by this point or not- theoretically (if your conscience allows) you could take the warranty out on an already-broken dyson.......

The MIL bought it with the extended warranty already, and its already been taken back under the warranty to get it unclogged. I hate it. Went to Godfreys, its only worth $200 as a trade in, I'm still debating whether or not to sell it privately and get a $300 bagless no-name vac, or keep saving for a $1000 wertheim with that $200 tradein. Its just so heavy and hard to use I loathe using it with a passion so our house perpetually needs vaccuuming because I avoid it so much. Those things must be designed for 100k men not 50kg women, they weigh a tonne. At least with my old 10yo barrel wertheim (which died of old age) the house got vaccuumed on a regular basis ...

Wish we'd been consulted on which vac she was going to get. I would have tried it out, realised how heavy it was and got a barrel version of the same thing since she's so brandist. Oh, for a vaccuum cleaner where you just shove an attachment on the end of a hose to get into the corners, you don't need to disassemble the entire thing, reassemble it and then fight with the world's most spring loaded hose ...

[RumpledElf 20]

You made me google. I found this:

http://www.dealsdire...-cleaner-2000w/

The reviews raving about how nice and light and easy to manouver it is are making me want to buy it for myself as a birthday present (which is in 2 weeks)

ETA: and this one, same price, but has a reuseable cloth bag rather than a washable filter.

http://www.oo.com.au/Vacuum_Cleaner_with_Compact_De_P21645C78.cfm

Decisions decisions. Anything is better than the Dyson.

[tux 4]

I recommend the Miele "Cat and Dog" vacuum cleaner. We don't have a cat nor a dog, but we do have a thick pile carpet. This vac has plenty of suction, is relatively quiet, reliable, easy to use. You can adjust the power for floors that don't need as much power such as tiled floors in bathrooms.

It is not "bagless", but I don't have a problem with using bags, they are no fuss and no mess and not expensive.

Ours is actually made in Germany. Not sure if the Miele Cat and Dog vacs are still made in Germany. Not even 3 series BMWs are made in Germany these days!

[Peachy 6]

I recommend the Miele "Cat and Dog" vacuum cleaner. We don't have a cat nor a dog, but we do have a thick pile carpet. This vac has plenty of suction, is relatively quiet, reliable, easy to use. You can adjust the power for floors that don't need as much power such as tiled floors in bathrooms.

It is not "bagless", but I don't have a problem with using bags, they are no fuss and no mess and not expensive.

Ours is actually made in Germany. Not sure if the Miele Cat and Dog vacs are still made in Germany. Not even 3 series BMWs are made in Germany these days!

We got one of these recently. The one who does the vacuuming around here likes it much better than the previous volta bagless $200 job.

Will check if made in FRG, if I remember to.

[Peachy 6]

We got one of these recently. The one who does the vacuuming around here likes it much better than the previous volta bagless $200 job.

Will check if made in FRG, if I remember to.

Checked now - real German made quality.

[cobran20 105]

I often get extended warranty on costly items. I distinctly remember getting my money's worth on a car, dishwasher and a fridge. The cost of one service call is often more than the cost of the extended warranty.

[Max Carnage 35]

Hmm. Since this thread is reanimated, it's worth noting that new consumer protection laws came in last January. They unfortunately still left room for a seller to refuse to uphold their statutory obligations which leaves a consumer (who doesn't have extended warranty) to choose between letting their claim go or going to court. Which sucks. We need a consumer protection ombudsman, like the telecommunication ombudsman (who are very good). IMHO.

[tom 20]

Hmm. Since this thread is reanimated, it's worth noting that new consumer protection laws came in last January. They unfortunately still left room for a seller to refuse to uphold their statutory obligations which leaves a consumer (who doesn't have extended warranty) to choose between letting their claim go or going to court. Which sucks. We need a consumer protection ombudsman, like the telecommunication ombudsman (who are very good). IMHO.

There are state based consumer protection agencies.

I am not even sure they share information which is critical for such an exercise. If 3 people in one state have an issue with a particular flaw in a particular product it is far more difficult to claim it is defective outside warrantee and not fit for its intended purpose than if there are 100 claims with the same issue across Australia.

Car manufacturers are the toughest to fight. Even if you get it serviced by the manufacturers agents the whole 3 years of your warrantee the likes of Ford will still tell you to get stuffed when you take the car in for a new transmission just after the warrantee period... They are dogs.

You will have far more success around consumer electronics where the RandD and advertising component is a large part of the price of a good. Replacing these goods if defective is in the manufacturers interest as replacing them is cheap. I have heard I phones for example they do not even muck around they just hand you the new one and take the old.

A $5000.00 transmission is not the same as a $2000.00 TV which actually costs the manufacturer $400.00 to replace. Sure advertising and R and D have to be done and have to be costed into new sales but these things do not count toward replacement which actually protects the brands image. Of course you would be pretty stupid to replace your TV with the same brand that just conked out on you if they did not replace at their cost anyway. Again Ford / Mazda appear to have given up on this philosophy of protecting their image. In fairness it would not surprise me if other car manufacturers are the same? Anyone tried with Toyota, this is a brand I have never had an issue with but would love to hear if their are any horror stories? Dodgy accelorator pedals aside...